Will our state in the final judgment be temporary?

Life is suffering. (Buddhism – and the immortal words of the Man in Black)

I personally agree with your friend, SD. I think there really isn’t a final judgment, in the classic sense of the term. I think we become whatever we become – and that we have eternity to get there. I understand, as you said, why it’s hard to preach that (given the example of “easy grace” – “confess His name and be saved” – and how lazy people tend to get when they believe they’ve made it), but it certainly is taught in that passage from the D&C – and the Plan of Salvation already has mulitple “stages of development” that we teach now.

I don’t believe in classic Buddhist reincarnation, although I don’t reject the possibility of multiple mortal lives, but I do accept the idea of mulitple “existences / stages” until we all become fully “godly”. That general idea exists in outline form already within our theology.

There’s actually a long standing debate about a final judgment day that goes back hundred and even thousands of years, I believe. I know! I think I read this in a Joseph Campbell book “Myths to Live By.” Anyway, many cultures have this. The feeling is, without some stopping point, people will procrastinate becoming better forever. It’s not satisfying on some level. We need a judgment to give us a sense of urgency.

True or not, it’s very functional.

No judgment = nice results for everyone, but nobody bothers to actually be good. Judgment = urgency, but it’s always unfair for someone. It makes us feel bad because we don’t want to be the one left out.

SilentDawning,

I also agree with your friend. There is much in the next life that we don’t understand. I understand the “urgency” of the final judgment, and whatever knowledge we gain in this life will help us in the next. So, if we don’t want to waste our times, we should do our best in this life now.

I haven’t changed my mind yet . . . but I do reserve the right to do so in the future. Further light and knowledge and all that jazz. :ugeek:

My summary of that passage would be something like:

What we do affects who we become – or, our attitude affects what we do, which, in turn, affects who we become.

I think that general idea fits either “model” quite well. After all, it’s just a basic statement of progression, no matter how long one has in the process of becoming.

SD, there’s a difference in believing in eternal progression as I outlined my belief in it and in believing every single person who ever lives in mortality will reach the highest reward imaginable. I believe the former; I don’t believe the latter. I think the summary in my last comment described the general concept – but the extreme toward which each person drifts or runs full-speed is up to them. I just think more people will end up on the same path eventually than many other people think will be the case.

When I say

What we do affects who we become – or, our attitude affects what we do, which, in turn, affects who we become.

I mean it to apply to movement in any and all directions. It could be argued that “everything is one eternal round” means we all end up circling back to the beginning in the end – or it could mean that the “round” is an ever climbing spiral – or it could mean that in the end we are “restored” to whatever character we were in the beginning – or it could mean everything exists in one giant arena for us to discover – or it could mean that what comes around goes around – or it could mean lots of other things.

I personally think it hints at truly eternal progression, which I personally like to characterize as the ability to progress toward whatever “godhood” to which we orient ourselves – the “godhood” of good or the “godhood” of bad. We tend to spiral toward whatever eventual end we choose – and I also believe that eventual end has very, very little to do with our publicly stated theology and our official religious affiliation. There are saintly Mormons and devilish Mormons – as is true of every other religion in existence. I just happen to really love the officially stated direction Mormonism encourages we choose as the intended path of our spirals.

To say it differently, it’s not the car you drive, and it’s not even necessarily how well you drive it; rather, it’s the direction you choose to drive. I might have said the direction in which we drive determines where we end up, with the extension that one can end up on either side of the cosmos (think a sphere cut in equal parts, not a line with two rays leaving the center point) or stall in the middle and simply refuse to drive at all. (which would be three ultimate destinations as possibilities, ironically)

What I’m saying fundamentally is that I believe if we get in and drive in the right direction, we eventually will arrive at the right destination – even if that destination simply is a never-ending ride in that direction.

I’ve noticed the extension and refinement of ideas described in the BoM in the D&C and JS’s later teachings — thanks MH.

Ray, your comments remind me of a discussion I followed on a TBM forum a while ago — about eternal progression and specifically, the ability to create worlds. A number of people expressed a total lack of desire to engage in those activities (world creation) for eternity. I suspect these feelings will grow and change over eternity. For me, if asked what I would like to do for eternity if granted time to progress in any direction, right now, it wouldn’t be in leadership or toward world-creation. It would be some other interest. 10 years ago I would have chomped on the bit to learn how to create a world.

So, I see eternity accommodating many different personalities and strengths — and personal choices.