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On Sunday a friend of DW asked if we could come to the baptist church with her, but we had some things to do in the LDS ward too so; we split the difference and went to both. It was Fast Sunday and I think the young women’s pres. started a trend on making good choices (going to movies with parents and skipping the parties, etc.). One person actually said “I’m so grateful I was smart enough to make the right choices” and then another woman testified of how her poor choices as a teen lead to heatache and regret.
The Baptist church had a sermon about how everyone is “damaged goods,” we all have baggage, dings, scars etc. That Jesus still sees something in us, still sees everything in us, that he would sacrifice his life to make us whole. That we become more than just the sum of our bad (or good) choices.
I recognize that the testimonies were pointed towards the youth and there are some serious decisions facing them at present, but I was alarmed at the lack of atonement being shared- it was all about consequences and that only the right choices would lead to happiness (as if anyone makes all the right choices).
I’m sure I’ve sat through many meetings like this before and it didn’t really bat an eye but I’ve changed now and my needs are different. Sitting through both meetings in such quick succession really brought out the juxtaposition in my mind.
Roy, if you have a good relationship with your Bishop or someone else in a leadership position in your ward, I would share this with them. Seriously. Not in a harsh or accusatory way, but just as “something I want to share”. I would mention that you attended the other service at the request of a friend, since you don’t want to be a total hypocrite by asking others to attend our services if you aren’t willing to attend theirs (or something like that which will be understood by the other person), and that you just want to share your experience for them to consider how your own Sacrament Meetings, in particular, can focus more on Christ and the Atonement – since that meeting is supposed to be our worship service. If you don’t have that type of relationship with anyone in that type of position, perhaps you have a good friend in the ward who can share it anonymously as something that happened to a friend.
Yeah, I’m sure it is difficult for the Bishop to control all of what in shared on fast Sunday. Perhaps he can make some suggestions or assign someone to testify about a specific gospel topic (like the atonement) or even start the meeting out with his own testimony. I sure don’t envy his position but I suppose I can assist him in this small way by sharing my observations.
Thanks!
Roy, I had a similar experience when I attended a United Church and then my own ward. The United minister gave a lovely sermon on the beatitudes saying things like we are all blessed and Jesus invites us to relieve the suffering of others. Then I went to my ward and the bishop spoke about being more committed to our callings especially in callings that involve youth because the world is very dangerous and he needs our help to save the teenagers. I realize that my head is in a space where I am very sensitive to hearing that I need to do more and be more but the United Church meeting lifted my soul while the LDS one left me feeling depressed.
A few days ago my oldest child asked me if I was going to convert to the United Church I seemed so happy after the meeting I went to. Sigh…….
CG
My experience of Baptist and Presbyterian churches is that they are very dependent on who’s minister. Especially the latter. In Presbyterian services a bad preacher can wreck a service, and a good one can make it wonderful. Kind of like the LDS Church and Bishops / Branch Presidents / Stake Presidents. That really is important to remember.
Old-Timer wrote:Kind of like the LDS Church and Bishops / Branch Presidents / Stake Presidents.
I remember years ago reading a quote by BY to a group of bishops. He told them to stop doing a lot of preaching. They were there to oversee and manage their wards, not to be up behind the pulpit all the time spouting out a lot of “doctrine”. I always thought that to be good advice given Sambee’s comment. You start relying on one person’s persona and it’s going to go sour sooner or later.
Old-Timer wrote:Kind of like the LDS Church and Bishops / Branch Presidents / Stake Presidents.
That really is important to remember.
Very true, but I would say (from my experience, I was raised Presbyterian) that in the LDS, there tends to be a greater variety of preachers, whereas in many Presby churches, it’s just the one.
Like I say, as regards presbyterian churches, a minister can make or break a congregation. I’ve seen cases of it going both ways.
SamBee wrote:Old-Timer wrote:
Kind of like the LDS Church and Bishops / Branch Presidents / Stake Presidents.
That really is important to remember.
Very true, but I would say (from my experience, I was raised Presbyterian) that in the LDS, there tends to be a greater variety of preachers, whereas in many Presby churches, it’s just the one.
Yes, one of the things that are unique in the LDS world is the lay ministry. This includes bishops etc. but it also means that the sermons given are from untrained novices. This (IMO) reduces the likelihood of great inspirational sermons given from the pulpit.
Quote:This (IMO) reduces the likelihood of great inspirational sermons given from the pulpit.
Sure, but it also makes it possible for lay members to prepare and give great inspirational sermons from the pulpit – and it makes it possible for other lay members to hear those great sermons. To me, that is a wonderful result.
It’s a trade-off, and I personally prefer it over the alternative.
As some of you may know, my husband and I have been attending several churches the past 6 months. We have felt most comfortable in the Nazerene church because of the people there. They are fun loving, humble, down to earth, self sacrificing individuals who love Jesus. The main goal of the church is to manifest the love of Christ to others. The minister is a young man in his thirties, married, with two children who came from the school of hard knocks before God led him into the ministry. He is very down to earth, loves sports and has a huge youth ministry in the local high schools with sports programs. The membership has grown alot this past year. It is a very Christ-centered church that really knows how to pray for each other. The Sunday School classes have good discussions too. Wed. nights are Bible study classes. One for women only, one for men only, and one for Seniors and then the last is for the youth. I attend the one for women only and am in charge of taking the prayer request and praises and then typing them up and emailing them to the ladies in our group to pray for each other all week. They have lots of regular outside church activities like “Mom’s to mom’s group” for young mothers who support each other in parenting on Monday nights. They have a “Celebrate Recovery” group on Tues. nights for those who deal with special problems and need healing (like addictions etc.) Very successful group. They have pot luck dinners regularly, prime timer’s dinners for seniors. Talent shows, etc. Very well organized.
I also attend a Thurs. morning women’s Bible study class at Christ Community Church because these are such amazing women. Very intelligent and caring. I love the stimulating discussions. Met a psycologist there, who is a life coach and willing to help me with my life goals.
It is true that often the minister of a church determines activity. From my intro, you know that God led us to the 7th Day adventist church for a couple of years simply because the minister there had what we really needed at the time. One thing I have learned is that there are wonderful people who are truly inspired in these churches. I used to think the lds church had a monopoly on good people and were more inspired because we were supposed to have the ‘constant companion of the holy ghost.” But, I have not found that to be the case.
I remember telling a stake president once, who worked with my husband at Palmer University, about the “Love Circles’ groups they had at the 7th day adventist church. Sisters met once a week and shared their problems and prayed for each other. I told him we can learn things from other churches. He got so angry at me and said, “I don’t ever want to hear another word about the 7th day adventist church. We are the only ones with the truth.”
Yes, we are not active in the lds church right now, but there is still alot of lds teachings and culture in us that is good. If God leads us to return to the lds church someday again, we will follow that inspiration. For now we just don’t believe the lds church is the only true church. What we do look forward to is the 2nd coming of Christ, when all good people will come under one umbrella. I just know there are so many wonderful, spiritual people in most churches.
Quote:He got so angry at me and said, “I don’t ever want to hear another word about the 7th day adventist church. We are the only ones with the truth.”
Sometimes you just have to shake your head and sigh – but usually not in front of the person who says those things.
Roy wrote:
Yes, one of the things that are unique in the LDS world is the lay ministry. This includes bishops etc. but it also means that the sermons given are from untrained novices. This (IMO) reduces the likelihood of great inspirational sermons given from the pulpit.You’d be surprised. I have heard dreadful sermons by lay preachers, but some wonderful ones too. Trained clergy are sometimes too stuck in the bubble. (LDS are sometimes scared of stepping over the line, but I hear some surprising sentiments)
Outside the LDS, I have heard sermons which sound like a university lecture, I have heard sermons I could not make head nor tail of they were that woolly (one was something about a wall in Cairo, a very labored metaphor), sermons which were intellectually stimulating, ones that would put you to sleep, ones that were truly inspiring etc etc. Sometimes it’s actually down to the preacher’s personality – we call it being in touch with the Spirit – and how good he is at delivering it. You can have a lot of head knowledge, but unless you can transmit the basic message you’re useless.
The most tedious sermon I have ever heard was not even Christian – it was by a Buddhist monk (white of course!) He had been commuting on the train, and was talking about how the electronic sign told him where he was going. I suppose he could have done something with that, but he didn’t really. I had to excuse myself and leave early it was so bad.
Old-Timer wrote:Quote:This (IMO) reduces the likelihood of great inspirational sermons given from the pulpit.
Sure, but it also makes it possible for lay members to prepare and give great inspirational sermons from the pulpit – and it makes it possible for other lay members to hear those great sermons. To me, that is a wonderful result.
It’s a trade-off, and I personally prefer it over the alternative.
For me, it’s even stevens… it just really depends who’s on the stand and when.
Old-Timer wrote:Quote:He got so angry at me and said, “I don’t ever want to hear another word about the 7th day adventist church. We are the only ones with the truth.”
Sometimes you just have to shake your head and sigh – but usually not in front of the person who says those things.
Actually I see some similarities between us and the 7DAs – I mean don’t they have a
living prophetand all?! I think they’re probably right about the Sabbath though!
SamBee, Yes there are lots of commanalities between 7th day and lds. They believe Ellen G. White (their founder was a prophetess) and in revelation. They have a code of health and started around Joseph Smith time from the Milleritte movement. Ray, I agree about keeping it to ourselves when some one like my stake president says something like that…still you wonder why that would anger him so.
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