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Hello all… I have been a long time lurker and have found perspectives here very positive and hopeful from the point of facing the realities of a faith transition with the hope of focusing on the good and the constructive. So that’s to all the out of the box thinkers.
I personally am struggling a bit with perspective and how to find value and meaning in a religious context given the “messiness” of real life. I come from a less active family, but have always been very active and mostly traditional in my beliefs. I have always held a firm belief in science, and never found a need to draw religious threatening conclusions from it. I have had a literal belief/hope in the atonement and the idea of eternal life. I am in the midst of raising my own family, with my oldest child recently turning 12. The past few years have brought several questions from my kids that have frankly “woken me up” to what they have been taught by others at church. I have never really cared that others have had ultra literal beliefs, but it is very sobering to hear your children repeating conclusions you have never taught them and that you don’t agree with. There have been many aspects of our faith that have bothered me, but between leading a busy life and the discomfort of facing these issues and deciding how to address them in my life… I have left them alone…until now.
As with many of you I am sure, I have been reading everything I can get my hands on for the past year or so, from various thouhtful faithbased books (Givens, Hardy, Bushman) to Athiest items (Harris and Dawkins in particular) and everything in between (Quinn, Palmer, etc). I have found no gilead’s balm in the bookstore
As I think about why I am in the quandary I am in, I think much of it boils down to expectations I have had for things we discuss in the church- definitions. Hopefully, I am not talking about playing mental gymnastics with words to find some obscure way to some how make it all true (I am convinced that ain’t gonna happen… thanks NAMIR and DCP!). I am talking about thoughtful ways to make sense of concepts in a meaningful way that can somehow allow for the divine to stay a part of my world view and that of my children (and yes, I realize this may sound contradictory to what I said above about not wanting to be on a path that isn’t true… “why God- but not mormonism”).
I would be interested to hear from any willing to post their views on how they define certain words or concepts today- given their transition. Feel free to add any context around it that you might find useful. These are some of the ones I am thinking heavily about regarding meaning today. Feel free to add any you think I may have left out that have relevance for you (also- I hope this has not been covered before):
1. Prophet (What is it- what defines it- what is it not-how can you tell)
2. Revelation
3. Restoration
4. Gospel
5. Testimony
6. Faith
7. Worthy
8. Salvation
9. Priesthood
Thanks.
Welcome, blackout. It would be nice if the definitions were simple, and straight forward, and applied black and white to all situations. But I don’t think words work that way, which is why I guess the English language has over 250,000+ words and growing.
But I’ll take a stab at the first one…
Quote:1) there are a couple meanings to prophets…a prophet, or THE prophet. A prophet is someone called of God to go and teach people, which is why some say we are all prophets. But in mormonism, the prophet is the president of the Church, the one with keys to receive revelation for the Church as a whole. Similar to this is the Q15 that are all prophets authorized to lead and teach the Church.
It is easy to know the prophets of the church…they have a system by seniority they move until one is chosen as President of the Church and THE prophet.
Recognizing if others are sent by God to teach is more difficult. I believe it requires a unsure method of the Spirit testifying to us that the words of the teacher are truly from God. We check their messages against prior scripture to see if they are in line with prior revelation. We often don’t know that until after facts are revealed, and in the mean time, have to use faith to believe them.
OK, one more…
Quote:2) Revelation: Revelation is communication from God to His children. I believe it is wider of a definition than sometimes we think.
Oooh, I love definitions! 1. Prophet (What is it- what defines it- what is it not-how can you tell)
– anyone who receives “prophecy”, that is, a witness or testimony of jesus christ. From Prophet to every individual, each of us has the right to prophecy.
Revelation 19:10 wrote:And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for
the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. 2. Revelation
– what the spirit of truth tells us in our mind and in our heart.
Doctrine & Covenants 8:2-3 wrote:Yea, behold, I will tell you in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost, which shall come upon you and which shall dwell in your heart.
Now, behold, this is the spirit of revelation; behold, this is the spirit by which Moses brought the children of Israel through the Red Sea on dry ground.
3. Restoration
– a remarkably faithful reproduction of the early Church of Jesus Christ from the period of 34 CE – 324 CE, including ongoing revelation, doctrinal speculation, syncretism, utopian socialism, priesthood authority, worthiness interviews and recommends, belief in premortal existence, seriously flawed leadership disputes, and differences over the role of law versus grace.
4. Gospel
– truth. a knowledge of things as they were, as they are, and as they are to come. if something is not true, whether it is in conflict with history or science, it is not the gospel.
5. Testimony
– our personal witness, with evidence, of what we believe to be true.
6. Faith
– the ability to act on trust, not knowing. trust is the essential element of faith. if we know, we don’t have faith. faith therefore is the power to act when we don’t know what will happen, but we trust that it is the right thing to do. it is imprudent to have faith in someone or an organization that is not truthful with us. hence, faith in the church, or in a concept of “follow the prophet, he will not lead you astray.” is to put your trust in the arm of flesh, and that leads to destruction. faith, therefore, is best placed in the Name of Jesus Christ: “I AM”.
7. Worthy
– of worth. given that each of us have a divine nature, our worth is infinite. we are worthy. period. sometimes we make mistakes, so we make amends, and move on–this does not affect our worth or worthiness–it makes us human.
8. Salvation
– a free gift to all by virtue of grace: the act of forgiving us of our human screwups and reconciling us to god, making us one within ourselves and one with others. it is the essence of being–of living. it is the Way.
9. Priesthood
– an organized hierarchy (that is what the greek work hierarch means: high priest) of people who support others day-by-day in their various needs. it is a temporary, earthly service organization whereby we connect with one another.
1. Prophet (What is it- what defines it- what is it not-how can you tell) Anyone who acts as a conduit to reveal change, new perspectives, new ideas, solutions, etc. This is the dramatic, chaotic and vibrant “will of God” pouring into the present.
True prophets usually walk on the edge of madness, if not crossing the line. They shock our sensibilities. They challenge our comfort. They rattle the status quo. They shake up the box of life. The sure sign of a false prophet — they are boring, and tell you what you already know.
2. Revelation
Inspiration. Our very powerful subconscious mind whispering through “the veil” into our waking world through dreams, visions, gut feelings, etc. Listen well, and it will take you on an adventure.
3. Restoration
The process of letting go of our attachments, replacing them with new revelations (insights and information), new facts, new wisdom – replacing old dogmas that no longer match the ever changing world we find ourselves in.
4. Gospel
All things that are “true.” You don’t have to believe things that are not true. In fact, you shouldn’t. That is why God gave us a brain and a heart.
5. Testimony
A Mormon cultural word, the label for the ritual of publicly declaring you are a part of the community.
6. Faith
Is an action and a state of being in hope. It’s what gets you out of bed in the morning. Faith is NOT knowing. Having faith includes doubting.
7. Worthy
Probably the most damaging concept in all of Mormonism.
8. Salvation
The deep change of heart, a level of wisdom and confidence won through trials and precious life experience, that you are ultimately going to be OK. You are good enough. A satisfaction with your life. Salvation is for the here and now, not some distant future eternity.
9. Priesthood
A body of people who serve God, which is another way of saying they serve their fellow human beings. It doesn’t matter who lays their hand on your head, or what fancy college degree you hold, if you don’t feel this calling deep down in your heart.
blackout wrote:I would be interested to hear from any willing to post their views on how they define certain words or concepts today- given their transition. Feel free to add any context around it that you might find useful. These are some of the ones I am thinking heavily about regarding meaning today…
This is what these words mean to me:
1. Prophet – To me this is simply a special title some people have been given. In theory prophets are supposed to speak directly for God in an authoritative way but personally I think this is a false expectation and no mere mortals past or present really deserve that much trust to the point that we should automatically believe or do something simply because they said so.
2. Revelation – Communication directly from God or some other supernatural source. I don’t have a problem with the idea of revelation and inspiration but I think they should generally complement other (more reliable) sources of knowledge and if there are ever any direct conflicts or contradictions then I definitely wouldn’t give a purported revelation priority over some alternative explanation that clearly makes more sense to me.
3. Restoration – I see this as simply the Church’s official story about its claimed origins that looks like it is mostly a way of explaining what makes it different and supposedly better than other churches.
4. Gospel – To me the gospel should literally be “good news.” For example, Paul’s message that Jesus was alive was good news to early Christians. I’m not sure that many LDS traditions like tithing settlement and temple recommends really fit very well with the term gospel.
5. Testimony – I see this as exaggerated conviction about the truthfulness of various LDS doctrines especially about prophets and their work and the general idea of one true church.
6. Faith – To me this is confidence to act as if something is true when there is no way to verify for sure or prove it to others in a convincing way. I still believe in God and an afterlife and believe that most of the things Christ taught are positive and would make the world a better place if everyone applied the general idea of these teachings. So I don’t think I have really lost much faith in general I have mostly just lost faith in the Church and its leaders.
7. Worthy – This is the terminology the Church uses to separate what it considers to be good (obedient) Mormons from bad (disobedient) Mormons so much so that it openly discourages worthy Church members from marrying unworthy Church members. It doesn’t mean much to me anymore because I think you can be a perfectly decent person without being “temple worthy” and you can also treat others terribly and still get a temple recommend without having to lie in interviews.
8. Salvation – This is like a carrot used by the Church to leverage obedience and sacrifices out of Church members because it will supposedly all be worth it in the next life and temples are basically a symbol that you supposedly need to go through the Church to receive the highest level of salvation. Personally I’m not worried about salvation anymore simply because I don’t believe that anyone really knows for sure what exactly will happen when we die.
9. Priesthood – Basically this is a line of succession from the earliest Church leaders to current members and a claim that Church members have special authority that other churches don’t so their baptisms supposedly don’t really count. Along with the restoration story and continuing revelation claims this is a big part of the “one true church” mythology.
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