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March 7, 2011 at 2:34 pm #205786
Anonymous
GuestIn most ways, I am as mainstream as it gets – in the way I live and in the eyes of most members in my ward and stake. My politics and perspectives on quite a few topics are different than many of theirs, but I don’t make a big deal out of it. I try to comment quietly and kindly and calmly, even when I am trying to “correct” something that has been said (and I almost always preface my comments with something like “I think …”) – so most people don’t take what I say as “radical” or “non-mainstream”. Honestly, by this time probably almost half of what I say in Church is different in some way than what others are saying, but since I’m not confrontational or subversive in any way it’s cool. Everyone knows I am fully committed to the Church, so my opinions aren’t viewed as threatening or argumentative or non-mainstream. I don’t think I’m the exception as far as my actual views being slightly (or even significantly) different than others. I think there are LOTS of members who are like me in that regard, but most of them aren’t as comfortable expressing their differing views as I am. However, I think there are many who don’t want or need to try to construct their own puzzle. They are fine with taking the puzzle built by others and living within it – and most of them live righteous, productive, caring lives. I don’t begrudge them their perspective, since it works for them. It just doesn’t work for me – and many others.
Frankly, I think there are two basic currents within the “mainstream” (with various sub-groups within each):
1) The ones I’ve just described who really don’t think much about the details swim in the middle of the stream – generally in a pretty tight bunch with life jackets firmly attached;
2) The ones who like to try to play around in the details swim on the sides of the stream – generally spread all over the place diving and snorkeling and splashing away – sometimes totally out of direct sight of the other group.
Neither of the groups is “right” or “wrong” – just as swimmers who use different strokes aren’t “right” or “wrong”. (To someone who only can swim using the classic freestyle stroke, someone using the butterfly or backstroke can look weird, wrong or rebellious.) Each might look like they are on different journeys to some in the other group, but I think we’re all in the same main stream.
In other words, we sometimes think we are swimming in a local creek or tributary when, in reality, we all are swimming in the Mississippi River and just might not be able to see the other current all the time.
March 7, 2011 at 4:51 pm #240889Anonymous
GuestI can think of other ones – Pop Mormons and intellectual Mormons. One lot tend towards the tacky and simple, whereas the other lot intellectualize it all, perhaps too much.
I also think the Liahona/Iron Rod division is a valid one.
Converts and BICs have radically different experiences, as do those from “Deseret” and the rest.
March 7, 2011 at 9:12 pm #240890Anonymous
GuestI like the analogy, and I plan to expound a little. I also think SamB has a point about experience. I see a problem, or a major contributor to the cause of a faith crisis, coming from the tight groups with their “life jackets all stitched together.” These groups may talk about those swimming on the edges as “not good Mormons”, and give an impression to those growing up within the “bundle” that there is only peril outside the “bundle” — and that reality is worse than “our way or the highway.” They often give the impression the choice is “our way or Hell.”
It is unfortunate, and I mourn for it.
From my personal experience the crisis begins when one member of this bundle notices something outside, and begins to contemplate on it. Before too long they want to learn more, and their fascination grows — all the while afraid to share any of this with their close mates because they know they will be condemned for looking outside of the bundle. Eventually they come to realize that they are not fully nourished inside the bundle – and they want to explore outside.
How I wish they had the support to feel comfortable “finding themselves” whether within or without! I don’t think most would feel they need to leave the current that they are travelling in if they felt supported in swimming outside their bundle!!
The whole social conflict is such a tragedy for me, it eats me up.
How I wish the bundles could learn to see a little more beyond themselves. What a sea change of results that could bring!
March 7, 2011 at 10:09 pm #240891Anonymous
GuestI just had my mom visiting for a couple weeks. She cracks me up because she really likes to stir the pot on ideas in the church, especially how women are treated and how impressed she is with people who break rules for valid reasons, and are not focused on the letter of the law. She likes to play devil’s advocate sometimes to make it interesting. She’s a hoot. However, she considers herself very “mainstream” mormon with liberal views, and would be offended if someone called her a radical mormon, or a maverick, or heretical in any way (and I don’t think she is…but certain groups in the church would definitely characterize her ideas as such).
In some ways, the currents are more alike then they are different. It often depends on our point of view, I think.
March 7, 2011 at 11:28 pm #240892Anonymous
GuestHmmmm? I don’t know. If I’m the mainstream current, than I would be real happy. It seems to me that I spend most of my time within the church struggling to survive – like I’ve been swimming AGAINST the current my entire life. March 8, 2011 at 2:12 am #240893Anonymous
Guestcwald, maybe you have been – since it might be necessary to swim against the stream a bit to leave the middle of the river and reach a place more toward the edges where you would enjoy swimming. Also, perhaps those in the middle create their own mini-current that kind of swirls around them and makes it harder for people to break free. I just know it’s possible to swim outside the middle and still be swimming in the stream. March 9, 2011 at 5:20 pm #240894Anonymous
Guestcwald wrote:I’ve been swimming AGAINST the current my entire life.
Perhaps that’s who you are, and you don’t enjoy the mainstream…but it seems like you should still give yourself credit that you’re still in it, still swimming. That says something.
March 13, 2011 at 8:20 pm #240895Anonymous
GuestOld-Timer wrote:In most ways, I am as mainstream as it gets…Everyone knows I am fully committed to the Church, so my opinions aren’t viewed as threatening or argumentative or non-mainstream. I don’t think I’m the exception as far as my actual views being slightly (or even significantly) different than others. I think there are LOTS of members who are like me in that regard, but most of them aren’t as comfortable expressing their differing views as I am. However,
I think there are many who don’t want or need to try to construct their own puzzle. They are fine with taking the puzzle built by others and living within it – and most of them live righteous, productive, caring lives. I don’t begrudge them their perspective, since it works for them.I guess you could say that the traditional LDS doctrines work for most active members at least well enough that they haven’t had problems with them to the point that they felt compelled to leave yet. However, I think many of these active members go along with some of this not so much because they really want to or are completely content with it as much as simply because they think that’s what they are supposed to do and that it’s what others expect out of them. The problem is that the Church expects so much conformity in terms of specific beliefs (testimony) and obedience to strict rules (temple worthiness) that many members don’t have much tolerance for anyone that openly disagrees with some of these doctrines and policies and they think significant diversity of beliefs should not exist at all in the Church. Rather than bending much to accommodate some reasonable differences of opinion the Church is so rigid about things that it fails completely in many cases when members give up on it and become inactive or leave.
Personally, I don’t think “mainstream” is a very good word to describe most orthodox practicing Mormons because the Church has become so extreme compared to much of the rest of the world with things like insisting that drinking beer is a terrible sin and expecting members to sacrifice so much time and money for the sake of the Church. It’s almost gotten to the point that if you ever have much fun then it must be a sin of some kind. That’s one of the main reasons there are so many inactive members because many of them basically think that if they are already breaking some of these rules like the WoW then they just don’t belong in the Church and there’s no point in having much of anything to do with it.
March 13, 2011 at 9:04 pm #240896Anonymous
Guestcwald wrote:Hmmmm? I don’t know. If I’m the mainstream current, than I would be real happy. It seems to me that I spend most of my time within the church struggling to survive – like I’ve been swimming AGAINST the current my entire life.
I feel like that in the secular world!
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