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[Lec 6:7a] Let us here observe, that a religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things, never has power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation;[Lec 6:7b] for from the first existence of man, the faith necessary unto the enjoyment of life and salvation never could be obtained without the sacrifice of all earthly things;
[Lec 6:7c] it was through this sacrifice, and this only, that God has ordained that men should enjoy eternal life;
[Lec 6:7d] and it is through the medium of the sacrifice of all earthly things, that men do actually know that they are doing the things that are well pleasing in the sight of God.
[Lec 6:7e] When a man has offered in sacrifice all that he has for the truth’s sake, not even withholding his life, and believing before God that he has been called to make this sacrifice, because he seeks to do his will, he does know most assuredly that God does and will accept his sacrifice and offering, and that he has not nor will not seek his face in vain.
[Lec 6:7f] Under these circumstances then, he can obtain the faith necessary for him to lay hold on eternal life.
Taken from the lectures on faith. I used to believe this with my whole soul, to the point of alienating my entire non-member family, selling everything I owned before serving a mission, and beyond. But I’ve found that following this advice can make you totally miserable. When accompanied by “peak experiences” it can be beautiful (highly spiritual experiences) but without them, I find it makes life simply hard, and it’s part of the reason I’m an active, disaffected Mormon.
Comments — what are your experiences with this, good or bad?
The logic hits me as being basically backwards. It is not the actions such as extreme sacrifice that produces great faith …but it is the great faith of someone who has experienced “the mighty change of heart” that leads to meaningful sacrifice. I think sometimes we can be led to “fake it until you make it” but just as in a monetary application that strategy more often leads to great debt than anything else. I don’t recommend it. Spiritual debt can be monumental, and eventually will lead to a faith crisis when the imbalance is too great.
Orson wrote:The logic hits me as being basically backwards. It is not the actions such as extreme sacrifice that produces great faith …but it is the great faith of someone who has experienced “the mighty change of heart” that leads to meaningful sacrifice.
Funny, this line of reasoning you’ve put forward Orson, is a lot like the Born-Again Christians who say that good works are not necessary for salvation, however, the person who is truly saved will do good works. Therefore, you can tell if someone is saved by whether they do good works (without asserting those works are necessary for salvation at the same time — caveat). This ends up being a bit of a circular argument in my view.
I view it more as a “which comes first?” question, a cart-and-horse concern. It appears to me you could put a horse behind the cart, and try to get down the road …but in my mind it just doesn’t work very well.
Of course, that’s just me. I won’t ever say you need to see things my way to become acceptable, it simply makes the most sense to me this way.
Personally, I agree with the concept and principle behind the statement – but I believe the application gets screwed up almost every time when put into practice at an organizational level. Iow, I believe the idea that deep faith can produce a willingness to sacrifice greatly – but I also believe that “a religion” requiring such sacrifice better have a tremendous need to make such demands. The sacrifice of the early saints probably was a valid requirement, particularly those who served missions and literally made “success” possible; most situations in our time (outside of missionary service – where there still is a need for great sacrifice for many members) don’t have that same level of gravitas, imo.
Iow, I think it’s important to be willing to sacrifice all for that in which we believe, but I think it’s important in most cases not to be asked to do so by “the organization”.
I agree Ray, and I think the church has always had people that have experienced the “conversion” necessary to make the sacrifices in the right frame of mind. I just don’t think all members are to that point. There are probably a lower percentage today than in the early days – simply because it is so “easy” to just go along today. The problem is the social status that “gung-ho, do anything” members attain. It makes those who have not fully experienced the “mighty change of heart” feel like they need to step it up and sacrifice TO obtain that change of heart. From my experience I don’t see it working that way, and the pressure – whether self-applied or external – is very unfortunate and counter-productive.
Quote:the pressure – whether self-applied or external – is very unfortunate and counter-productive.
Amen, Orson.
Sacrificing all for something or an organization does not make it correct. I think we should be judicious in what we sacrifice for. If it has personal meaning to us then OK, but to sacrifice because someone tells you God will love you more, and by the way the church will have more money as in tithing, I think is bogus.
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