When rules replace religion

I hear you. This tendency with many of my brothers & sisters troubles me as well.

But because I have the living spirit within me, I don’t see it quite so negatively. Granted, they probably won’t ask me to teach Gospel Doctrine to the Adults anytime soon after my year of teaching the D&C and Church history(2009), but I promise no one slept through my lessons. I was surprised, but even with members of the Stake Presidency attending a few times, and the bishop and/or his counselors being there regularly, I was never “spoken to” or asked to stop breaking my promise to stick to the manual.

I loved it.

People are a bit gun shy, though, of a real prophet cutting loose. I mean, consider Joseph. He scared the crap out of all sorts of reasonable people. Why? Because ultimately, religion and spirit are not rational. And that opens up a very touchy can of worms, especially in our day and age. OTOH, people aren’t really rational either — thus the match between people & their religions.

Rules are rational, reasonable, consistent, and so forth. But revelation? Hah. You sure you want that? Unfettered, it’s “Katy, bar the door!”

HiJolly

…When rules replace religion I am afraid inspiration and creativity cease. When the procedure of giving a blessing is more important than what is said I think we are lost. When wearing a white shirt is a sign of your purity with little thought of what you are on the inside determines your position in the church, what hope is there….I am not going to say the church is all bad. I find many aspects good that I like participating in. I also know I am nit picking to some degree here. But as far as a religion goes the church is withering on the vine. Opinion unless correlated is discouraged. Thought outside of the box is scary.

IMO Spock, you are absolutely correct about how rules are replacing our religion. Best post I’ve read in a long time. and really hits home to me — this is where my faith crisis is centered. It certainly appears to me that we are exactly what we mock and talk about when we teach about the Jews, the Isrealites and the pharisees. Have we become what we perceived was once our greatest threat?

Perhaps even some of our prophets know this and are trying to do something about it – but our people WILL NOT LISTEN. Our people don’t want “the gospel” – they want “the law.” They want to be told what to do, how to behave, how to think and what to believe.”

And yeah — it is sad.

As far as the church “dying.” Maybe not physically speaking, but I think our culture is dying spiritually, and will continue to do so as long as they contintue to rely so heavily on the prophets to receive their revelation for them. MANY orthodox members think this is a sign of faithfulness and loyalty to the God. I find it to be little more than spiritual welfare.

Cadence — it surprises me a bit that you have drawn the conclusion that the Church is dying. With your analytical side, I would think you would base conclusions of the statistics — overall decline in new membership, increases in less-activity, declining numbers of endowed members with TR’s, etcetera.

On the other hand….I think it’s important to recognize that for some people, the rules and regs are a source of stability and comfort — they function well in those environments. However, the majority of us here, don’t. In fact, that may well be why we are here….too much structure, reprimands, however gentle for not “doing it by the book” don’t fit well with many of us.

When I joined the Church as a Young Adult, I didn’t have the self-knowledge to see that my personality and the way the Church conducts its business doesn’t meld very well. When I was younger, it didn’t matter much, because I didn’t have philosophy — but now – it’s glaringly clear that I married something with which I’m not naturally compatible.

I think it would interesting to post a similar question, more positively worded, on a TBM site to hear how they feel about all the rules and procedures. It would be interested in seeing their responses. I’m sure many of them would love them and feel very positive about them. Many for reasons they have been indoctrinated to believe, but many for other reasons.

I should have been more clear. I did not mean to allude to the fact that the church was dying in the sense that it was shrinking and going away, but more to the fact it was dying as a dynamic institution. Its energy is fading to me. This does not immediately translate to less members although I think it is apparent that the rate of growth has at least slowed.

As far as how TBM would respond I would think they would not look at it as a bunch of rules but as divine guidance on how to live a better life. Which in the case of many of the rules that may be true. And many members are better for it. But like the Pharisees who cherished the obedience Law of Moses to exclusion of all else I think members are getting lost in the letter of the law and not the spirit. When obeying an arbitrary rule or or focusing on the words you say in a prayer as a sign of your righteousness I think we are lost in the wilderness. It is not their fault however because it is all they have. In the absence of real revelation, all they get is a steady drumbeat of obedience to the rules. How could the average TBM believe anything else. Of course that is my opinion.

Perhaps even some of our prophets know this and are trying to do something about it – but our people WILL NOT LISTEN.

While I think this is correct, there’s a reason for it. Ray has pointed out, aptly, a number of times that there seems to be a movement within the Q12 to be less mechanistic, more concerned about people, more balanced in our approach to service etcetera.

But then, out comes Costa’s talk last conference stressing the whole blind obedience concept all over again. So, there is not a consistent message. And usually, to change culture takes a concerted effort. It can’t just be talks –there has to be supporting policy, changes to the CHI, systems, Sunday School lesson manuals, and such.

I don’t see this breadth of change toward a kinder, gentler Church. All I see are a few Q12 members with more liberal ideas sharing them in conference — and the members at large don’t see the cultural values these Q12 might be trying to change (emphasis on MIGHT BE).

Personally, I don’t think you’ll see significant change until church assets and revenues like tithing is threatened due to negative membership and activity numbers. As we saw with plural marriage, and the FP letter on tithing in the 70’s, they tend to act firmly and effectively when there are practical operational reasons for the change, not as a conscious effort to improve the culture when membership growth, tithing and the operational health of the Church is not at risk.

Cwald said, “As far as the church “dying.” Maybe not physically speaking, but I think our culture is dying spiritually.”

Yes and I feel like I am dying spiritually. This is a core issue for me as well. The LDS church isn’t giving me the things my soul is desiring. I want to learn more about compassion, kindness, loving unconditionally, forgiveness and how to be a woman of God. Like others have said recently I want to learn how to be a good person not a good mormon though they do overlap. I want to learn how to transcend my human qualities and understand how to live in harmony with the universe. I don’t just want rules to control the desires of my ego, I want to learn how to erase the ego and experience love. I’m a baby at all of this stuff but I do feel like the church is so afraid of other thoughts and ideas that they are blind to what could really bring us all joy.

I get what Hawkgrrrl is saying but what does that mean for me. Do I continue to stay where I feel stifled and bored out of my mind or do I set myself free to explore the world? The way I’ve set up that question, the answer seems obvious to me but we all know it just isn’t that simple.

Great post Cadence. Thanks for the thoughts.

CG

…I d

I get that the members wont listen well when it makes them think outside their box, but like SD said in this thread it takes more than milk toast comments at general conference to steer the boat in a new directions. So yes I do blame the leaders as much as the members because they never just come out and say “hey quit with all the crappy rules” They just make subtle statements about living the spirit of the law, and other innocuous comments. When they do lay it on with emphasis it is about obeying some law. If you want real change you have to be forceful and in it for the long haul to see change. I just do not see that from the leaders. They may want change but they are not directing it.

Fwiw, Cadence, it’s hard to get more blunt than Pres. Uchtdorf was recently when he talked about rules getting in the way of the Gospel.

I know there are some things about which this next statement doesn’t apply, but if the membership would listen and accept what the current apostles are saying about LOTS of things (like this) many of these issues would be much, much less prevelant.