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April 14, 2011 at 2:24 pm #205891
Anonymous
GuestAs some of you may remember, I was involved with a high-control religious commune (similar to the Amish, only all families under one roof) for a few years. I ended up moving back into the same community five months ago, only to “escape” again this past weekend. I am now experiencing a major crisis of faith. I just left a place where everyone loved God, spent every waking moment serving their brothers and sisters, striving for the development of love and compassion, and where we gathered every morning and evening for worship. I am consequently having a very difficult time readjusting to life in this “Godless”, materialistic society which promotes and is fueled by selfishness. I am living with my atheistic family right now, feeling extremely lonely and unfulfilled. I long for the fellowship of others who are also seeking to develop Christlike qualities and who sincerely love God and desire to do His will. It feels torturous to live in this world apart from such fellowship. The only solace I have right now is the gospel literature I’ve been able to read online. It gives me hope and comfort to know there are people in the world who are dedicated to upholding God’s righteous standards and obeying Christ’s commandments. The only problem is that the LDS Church seems very “worldly” compared to where I just came from, and I am still very much indoctrinated by the cult, thinking that unless one is devoting every waking moment to the service of others, one is not doing God’s will. Do you think it is wrong for me to have hope that perhaps returning to the Church at this point in my life will enable me to make the transition back to the world more easeful? I desperately long for like-minded friends, and for an avenue for my deep spiritual longings and aspirations. Any support would be appreciated more than you can imagine! April 14, 2011 at 3:54 pm #242696Anonymous
GuestKira — just let me say I’ve often wondered where you had gone after missing your beautiful avatar on our site. I say, yes, there is definitely hope. I felt similar feelings when I came home from a mission. We had regular spiritual experiences, two years of deep immersion every morning in study of the gospel and scriptures. Regular devotionals and inspirational experiences with our mission president and sometimes General Authorities.
Then, you hit the real world and come home. Try to reframe your “worldly” experiences as spiritual. Get a job. Look at that job your way of serving mankind. Serve the people you work with by doing your job well, being cooperative with them, kind in the workplace, and bringing godlike relationships to the workforce. Recognize that service in families, at work, and at Church are all opportunities to live that daily godliness you are used to finding in the community you just left.
Why did you go back? And why did you leave?
April 14, 2011 at 4:05 pm #242697Anonymous
GuestWhat you hunger for is the life you left behind when you came to this mortal sphere of existence. You can’t have it back, not really, until you die. Sorry about that. For now, you are required to be as wise as a serpent, and as harmless as a dove. You need to be ‘worldly’ enough to survive and thrive in the hard, painful reality of a brutal world. You came here to learn how to do this, for it was impossible in our beautiful, peaceful pre-mortal existence. Question: how old are you? Have you been to the temple?
We are here to learn to cope with and eventually thrive in a dark and dreary world. That is our task.
Follow the example of all life in nature. Either you survive by
cunning, sheer force, or privileged status. None of these are ‘bad’ or ‘evil’ in and of themselves. They simply are what must be for survival. You need to learn this, and learn it well, or your years here in mortality are a waste. Once you have this figured out, then it is your duty to reach out to those who struggle. To help them in their struggles to survive. The Church welfare system teaches that first we must have the necessities of survival, before we can ever become enlightened and ‘one’ with God.
The Hindu Sadhus have nothing, but need nothing — thus they too fit this model.
For us in the Western world, it’s a lot more complicated.
My suggestion is to allow yourself to enjoy the things this life offers, in moderation, while learning how to live in the world, and eventually live happily in it. Not everything in the world is bad. There are great horrific realities, and great beautiful realities as well.
I would think that your family, atheists as they are, can show you the nice, even beautiful things in the world. Let them teach you. Learn how to deal justly with others, in ways that they cannot take advantage of you. This is key.
And someday, learn to not only be happy, but to experience joy in this life. God has provided it to you, you chose to embrace it, now carry through and be!!
HiJolly
April 18, 2011 at 7:30 pm #242698Anonymous
Guestkira wrote:I just left a place where everyone loved God, spent every waking moment serving their brothers and sisters, striving for the development of love and compassion, and where we gathered every morning and evening for worship.
I too remember your intro from before and have missed you.
“The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.” ~Rudyard Kipling ~
There seem to be multiple facets with your difficulty. One appears to be from a loss of community. In many respects the LDS church has a great sense of community. Often this can be a double edged sword because it brings with it “community standards” and “barriers to exit,” but there are many praiseworthy effects as well.
It would seem that the balance between belonging to a group and being an individual is a delicate one and the optimal mix can change depending on the person and the circumstances. In echo of Mr. Kipling, the attempt to declare (or discover) your individual identity will often be lonely and frightening. May you find support and encouragement here as you attempt to find your own optimal mix.
April 25, 2011 at 4:56 pm #242699Anonymous
GuestThank you so much for your thoughtful responses to my post! I am not sure what is wrong with me, that I am so dependent on religious organizations to help me overcome my negative, unloving tendencies. I seem to deteriorate spiritually when I am not associated with a religious group. I know the Bible speaks about the necessity of good assocation, but in my case, it’s almost like I require constant edification and support from people who are more spiritually advanced. When I was in the community, I knew I was living in a way that was pleasing to God, and I knew I was doing what He created me to do – loving and serving others without thought for myself. Now, without any religion, my sins are piling up and I feel a heavy weight of guilt as a result. I deeply desire a clean conscience, but feel discouraged because I don’t know if I will ever be able to love as Christ loved apart from a communal living environment. I have no problem being chaste or abstaining from drugs and alcohol – but what I find most difficult is overcoming irritation, anger, pride, etc. and choosing to make sacrifices to meet the needs of others instead of spending time indulging in what I want to do.
In the community, I had no choice, no free will. I was told what to do every moment of the day. Now that I have my freedom of choice back, I find that I am making very unloving, unChristlike choices in the way I spend my free time, and I am no longer able to transcend unrighteous emotional reactions like getting angry or offended due to pride. In the community, I very rarely experienced any of these things and when I did, I simply prayed and/or talked with my friends about my withered condition, and was given abundant grace and help to be able to love in every circumstance. I do not understand why I cannot maintain the same faith, and receive the same help outside of the community.
The whole reason I returned to the community was because I believed it was the only way I would be able to develop self-sacrificing love for others, and though I was consistently able to do so, I ended up leaving because it was too controlling. Sadly, I feel like I may actually NEED a controlling, structured, authoritarian communal environment to be able to love as Christ loved. Which is a dilemma, as I don’t actually want to return to that type of controlled lifestyle.
I am still drawn to the LDS Church and have a glimmer of hope that perhaps returning to the Church would enable me to overcome the iniquities that prevent me from being able to love others and maintain a clean conscience before God. I am seriously considering calling the missionaries or Bishop, though I don’t want to disappoint them if I end up leaving the Church again so I am trying not to rush into things.
April 25, 2011 at 5:24 pm #242700Anonymous
GuestKira — like me years ago, you tend to beat yourself up over your mistakes. I feel you have a very strong ideal self, and when you don’t realize that ideal, it brings you lack of peace. So you search for structured environments which push you toward that ideal. However, these structured environments become intolerable for a while, and you crave autonomy. It wouldn’t surprise me if you had perfectionistic role models in your life when you were younger, or perhaps, even now. I believe the answer to your question for inner peace is SELF-AFFIRMATION. One thing I have learned to do is to love myself, in spite of my weaknesses. Honestly, to forgive oneself for the stupid or unChristlike things we do is part of learning to love others. It starts with unconditional love for ourselves.
There is a book written by an LDS author I suggest you read, if you can find it. It’s called Getting To Know the Real You by Ellsworth and Ellsworth, two LDS authors. It uses very little Mormon doctrine, although it refers to the need for us to learn to love our own spirits — in spite of all our warts and failures to live up to our ideal.
The other thing, I think you need to take joy in doing things YOU enjoy. Self-actualization. If I was you, I would consider taking the Strengthsfinder 2.0 personality test at
http://www.strengthsfinder.com . This will show you your top five strengths. There are resources there to help you find ways of applying those strengths to have an impact on this world in a way that is an expression of who you are. I’m living my strengths now in my work and it’s SO fulfilling. If I was in a better place with the Church, I would be applying them there as well. You will find yourself doing things you naturally do, but in a way that serves others.I highly recommend the book, and the personality test….
April 26, 2011 at 7:58 pm #242701Anonymous
GuestThank you so much SilentDawning! You touched upon something and made me realize that the unworthiness I had been feeling was not God’s heart towards me at all, but somehow related to my upbringing. I am feeling tremendously grateful because the things you said somehow snapped me back to reality and freed me from the heavy weight of guilt and self-loathing I had been experiencing. The perfectionism you spoke about comes from my BPD (Borderline) mother, who I am currently living with. I am now looking into how to establish boundaries in my relationship with her so that I don’t get sucked into her negativity. The community I was living in was also VERY perfectionistic, requiring you to make a clear confession of every single sin. Not only that, but you had to get to the root motive of what caused you to sin. For example, “I am sorry I reacted in anger, I was feeling irritated and instead of being open with you, I held things in because I was too proud and didn’t want to give up my own opinions. I repent for being proud. I don’t want to be that way.” And once I stopped confessing my sins and repenting, I no longer felt forgiven.
The last teaching I heard in the community before I left was about how people who inadvertently forget to put the lid back on the thermos (and thus cause their brothers to have to drink cold tea) will NOT enter the Kingdom (!!!) because they are being selfish and no putting others before themselves like Christ did. I am just now realizing how much I have been affected by living in this kind of environment for so long. There was so much truth to what they taught, but I am wanting to determine what God truly expects from me, and I am hoping the LDS Church will help clarify this so that I am no longer so tortured with guilt and worthlessness.
I am truly grateful for this forum, and for your support. Thank you for being so understanding, and for taking the time to listen.
April 26, 2011 at 8:45 pm #242702Anonymous
GuestKira, have you looked into whether or not you inherited some of your mother’s BPD – or something else that is related? It might not be BPD exactly, but there might be something that a professional diagnosis, therapy, counseling and/or medicine might help mediate. April 26, 2011 at 9:06 pm #242703Anonymous
GuestOld-Timer wrote:Kira, have you looked into whether or not you inherited some of your mother’s BPD – or something else that is related? It might not be BPD exactly, but there might be something that a professional diagnosis, therapy, counseling and/or medicine might help mediate.
Kira — there is also evidence that being subject to highly perfectionistic parents had an impact on self-esteem.. Do you struggle with self-esteem? And is it possible for you to get yourself into a new situation where you are free from too many perfectionistic ideals?
My mother was that way — perfectionistic and even today, I have to train myself NOT to beat myself up over things when I make mistakes. I have learned to brush them off (mostly). I actually took some counseling and I left feeling a huge weight off my shoulders. It was so valuable.
So, if you didn’t premeditate the mistake, and thought you were acting in good conscience at the time, then really, how accountable are you for that mistake? (And that includes leaving the lid off the thermos if it just didn’t register with your mind to put it back at the time). The atonement is supposed to cover those kinds of mistakes (liberating people who have ignorantly sinned). So, take advantage of that and forgive yourself, and move forward. It’s completely liberating!!! And take joy in the fact that if by simply being yourself you end up making the relationship “snow” dirty, life is structured so that you will probably find yourself in a new situation eventually, with new people, where you can start anew. It’s only a matter of time.
Also, if you didn’t know you were making a mistake, then there was nothing in your heart, or the core of your belief system or motives that was wrong — realize it was only due to lack of skills or knowledge, and sometimes, the luck of the draw. For me, I sometimes only learn about the perspectives of others after I say THE WRONG THING. Did that the other day to my daughter and she left crying. When I found out what her perspective was, I realized why she was so upset and apologized. I immediately forgave myself becauase I realized I didn’t have the information at the time to make a sensitive comment.
The other day, the former president of a publicly traded company I work with (capable guy) did the SAME THING to me. Totally dressed me down in public by removing authority from myself. I called him on it, and then he apologized profusely, said he realized how that would be offensive to someone with my perspective, and that he missed it. There were other factors motivating him and he shared them with me. I realized my perspective had nothing to do with his decision — I was simply caught in the crossfire….
So, we have a lot of mistakes we make in life simply because we are not connected to the minds and experiences of others — no one is….
April 27, 2011 at 7:02 pm #242704Anonymous
GuestSilentDawning wrote:So, we have a lot of mistakes we make in life simply because we are not connected to the minds and experiences of others — no one is….
Great post SD,
My wife and I have been talking about how to raise our children. DD is 5 and DS is 3. I feel inclined to emphasize that even if DD makes a poor choice or does a bad thing she is still a “good girl” at heart, with us, with God, and hopefully with herself. In looking to others who might not live our standards, rather than teaching the relatively benign “we know better than they do”- I feel to emphasize that if they make poor choices in ignorance than the atonement would be all the more readily applied (just as the atonement covers us and our foibles on a daily basis).
I hope my message isn’t eventually interpreted as a liscence to sin. I want my girl to not look down and feel superior to others that may wear a 2 peice bathing suit, nor feel unworthy if she submits to pressure to wear one herself. I want her to make good choices based upon how they make her grow and progress as a person not because a wrong choice could make her unworthy, unacceptable, or unclean. I don’t know the best way to parent and hope that the atonement will also be liberally applied to my faltering efforts.
kira wrote:Thank you so much SilentDawning! You touched upon something and made me realize that the unworthiness I had been feeling was not God’s heart towards me at all, but somehow related to my upbringing. I am feeling tremendously grateful because the things you said somehow snapped me back to reality and freed me from the heavy weight of guilt and self-loathing I had been experiencing.
I think you have really hit upon something there “the unworthiness I had been feeling was not God’s heart towards me at all.” I feel this to be true.
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