Sexual Sin (a Comprehensive Category) is NOT Next to Murder

Pres. Kimball was wrong? He made an assumption based on the culture in which he was raised? He was more concerned about the sexual aspect, given what he perceived as the primary counter-culture of his time, than about the other aspects of the account? He didn’t think to question the common assumption?

I’m wrong? I’ve over-thought this? Parsing the entire passage clouds what Alma actually meant when he was talking to Corianton?

Both are possibilities; I just believe what I’ve described as what I believe the original intent was – and that’s getting into REALLY dark glass territory.

it throws a new take on the Corianton story.

Good.

fwiw, I do consider adultery much worse than fornication, as you are hurting a third party.

I missed this topic. I just posted a bunch of stuff on the original thread. Sorry.

If you look at the passage again, Alma makes an interesting statement in verse 3:

Thou didst do that which was grievous unto me; for thou didst forsake the ministry, and did go over into the land of Siron among the borders of the Lamanites, after the harlot Isabel.

I really do think that Alma’s extreme reaction, while certainly justified given Corianton’s actions as a whole, was grounded in his emotional despair over seeing his son head down the same path Alma himself had walked as a younger man – a path that had caused him the most intense agony he ever had experienced. I think he saw his son as heading straight to Hell (literally and/or figuratively) – and I think he saw his son as leading others straight to Hell. That had to cause extreme anxiety and pain for him – and he reacted by in a very natural, GOOD way. He told his son exactly how he felt about what he was doing and his concern for him.

Whatever he meant by “next to murder” (the fornication or the totality of the actions), I like the fact that he was straight with the kid. If my father thought I was on a path to Hell, I hope he would let me know – even if, like in cwald’s case, I disagreed strongly. Hearing it over and over and over and over again like a stinking broken record is different – but I absolutely hope he would tell me.

I don’t know why that hit me just now, but it did – so I thought I’d share it with everyone.

I understand, I think, cwald, what you mean – but, given the public nature of this forum, I want to say something that is important to me:

Alma wasn’t speaking to the entire church. He was speaking to his son. Our culture reads it as general words to all, because it’s in what we view as scripture, but, especially if Alma meant what I think he meant, he was recording what he told his son.

I agree that it would be really nice to hear the idea of sexual sin being next to murder rejected in General Conference, but I’m not even sure I’m correct in my view of the passage in question. I’m fairly certain you and I both would beg our kids not to do certain things – and, if they were horrible enough in our eyes, I’m fairly certain we wouldn’t say it only once. I hope I eventually would let go and respect their agency – but what if it really was something that I considered to be just below murder? What if it was sexual abuse of a child? What if it was serious physical abuse of a spouse? What if it was out-of-control gambling? For me, those things all would classify, in practical terms, as serious enough to warrant “exceptional intervention”.

My point simply is that, even though I don’t agree with the broad designation of sexual sin as being next to murder, I can’t bring myself to condemn or belittle those who do accept that characterization. I can do my best to present my view in a way that has a chance of being considered, at least – and, if I hear of an example like, “If you have sex outside of marriage, you might as well not come home because you’re dead to me,” I can confront that head-on and passionately – but I can’t expect others to see this the way I do on their own. I can’t expect them to see anything the way I do without being willing to share with them how I see it.

I know that opens me up to all kinds of reactions (and it has brought all kinds of reactions at various times), and I know how hard it is to do, but I only can control me – and hope to influence others, in some way.

I won’t go into details here, since the details aren’t relevant, but I have addressed concerns openly and directly on a number of occasions throughout my years on the High Council (to those I’m counseling, but also to those “above me” whom I have represented) – whenever I have felt the situation was serious enough that I had to express my concern. On more than one occasion, I have told a group that I don’t agree with something that is being said – and, sometimes, I have been the only voice to say it. I hope, no matter the outcome in practical terms, that my view at least will be respected and considered as being sincere – and my expressions of concern have had a positive effect on more than one occasion. I know that’s easier for me in my situation than it is for you in yours, but it still is what it is.

I can’t expect change – but I can hope for it and act on that hope.

The more I dig and read and ponder, the more I believe its what I think matters. Really. I’ve seen the emotional damage the statement that fornication is the sin next to murder can cause to people who have sexual indiscretions.