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Really struggling to reconcile here….. Today at Church, it was such a mixed bag. I found a way out of priesthood meeting opening exercises when the Bishop got up and flogged the home teaching horse. He didn’t ever do much home teaching before he was a Bishop, so his encouragement was hollow. I couldn’t stand it so I found a way of discretely leaving the meeting. Thoughts of “is this all I have to look forward to for the forseeable decades of my life?” dominated my thoughts.
Then, in priesthood HP group, it was all about the Church Handbook of Instructions. A member of the SP mentioned how it’s a “remarkably thin book given the size of our organization worldwide”. However, he did comment on the need for judgment in its use, which was nice, but an entire lesson focused on it sort of put me off, as they missed some of the key changes like RS in PEC, less stringent HT guidelines.
And then, SS was very hard – it’s taught by a woman with a monotone voice. I opened the door to force myself inside and saw everyone sitting there bored. So I didn’t go in, and ended up having my own “SS lesson” with one of my HT family brethren where we shared what was going on in our minds in the Priesthood meeting – the things we couldn’t say openly. Which, I had to be careful with so as not to expose too much of my real thinking.
But then, in Sacrament meeting, I found the meeting most intolerable. It appeared to be a string of fabricated miracles out of day-to-day events. There was also a sharing of travelogues and serial ramblings.
But, at the very end, my whole family got up spontaneously and gave the most eloquent testimonies about a trip to a temple dedication recently. My youngest son, under the age of 10, instigated the whole thing, and wrote out a short testimony about the value of seeing the temple – and asked my wife to let him bear his testimony. They all went up – my kids and my wife. Their testimonies were short and they each applied the principles I shared with them in FHE before my dissafection a year and a half ago – avoid vain repetitions like “I know the Church is true”, and share your deepest feelings as it relates to situations you’ve encountered. Be brief with the intent to uplift others.
They also shared the troubles they had getting to the temple, without turning it into a huge, fabricated exercise in Satan placing obstacles to the temple, focusing more on the self-discipline it took to keep their eyes on the goal given a car breakdown hours from home, without their father (myself) who was at home working. I was impressed – particularly with my young son’s testimony. At the end of it, a large group of people nodded their head in agreement with the short, succinct testimony. My daughter actually flooded the room with the Spirit with a touching impression she had of a family experiencing the celestial room for the first time. The whole thing was characterized by brevity, eloquence, ending with a cadence of spirituality for each of them.
And so, I left totally conflicted.
On one hand, tormented by the experiences in priesthood and SS, but on the other hand seeing my kids with all this traction in the gospel, which appears to be having a positive influence on their overall character. If I was single, I would be dropping off the map and not attending anymore. But then, there is the strong commitment of my wife and kids, and the apparent benefits they are experiencing.
I left feeling disappointed in my own orientation toward the gospel now, and in a brief moment, slightly disappointed my wife and kids had demonstrated such strong spiritual roots with the gospel. Because it meant I had to embrace it all fully again. However, I also feel positive about the impact Church experiences are having on them.
How do you find reconciliation and peace between these two conflicting forces???
It is a daily…weekly struggle. Looking for these answers myself so I cant help but I’ll be following this post. It seems like you still expect the Church to be all good or all bad. Your experience at Church sounds like the way life works in general. Is every day in your marriage romantic fireworks and bliss, or is every day miserable? Probably not, but you find reasons overall to stay in it.
Is every day at work completely fulfilling in all aspects every moment of your day, or else a total waste of time every moment you are there? Probably not. At some point, you are there for a paycheck because you need to eat. So you find value in showing up.
Is every moment with your children a loving and positive relationship, or do you sometimes argue and fight with them, and they do things you know will cause problems? Probably a mixed bag, yet you find a reason to continue being their father.
I could go on and on…
That’s how I deal with it. I accept that Church is a mixed bag of both frustration and inspiration. Now that I know that, I can consciously tweak my relationship to balance that experience and produce a net profit. I minimize the costs by letting go of some things, and I add to the revenue by finding new sources when needed (both in and outside the sphere of Mormonism).
Yesterday was the day I was dreading. I knew I had to come clean with my bishop and the men I work with in Young Men and ask to be released from my calling. I pulled each one aside and explained my situation. I was surprised how understanding and supportive they were (unlike my best friend, who I confided in last week, and who pretty much treated me as a traitor and offered me the fit-the-mold-or-hit-the-road ultimatum). All in all, it was the most spiritual Sunday I have had in a long time. Korash
Brian Johnston wrote:It seems like you still expect the Church to be all good or all bad. Your experience at Church sounds like the way life works in general.
I think I’ve always viewed it that way, however, in the last year or so, my feelings have polarized SEVERELY, to the point the regular, forseeable habits of our Sunday religious experience are a dreaded experience.
I’m finding the bright spot is my kids and my wife. This whole Church thing is important to them. I’m wondering if I should simply support them and make THAT my Church experience. Accept callings that are more activity and temporally oriented that benefit my kids. I feel that’s all I can hope for now.
The bad annoys me, and I have this growing feeling that my reputation as an active member has been destroyed with my experience a year and a half ago. It’s hard to go to a community that believes that about you.
Also, my daughter, who is very discerning pulled me aside and asked me if I was contemplating going in active. How perceptive for a 12 year old when I’m always on guard not to express my true feelings. She said that at the end of priesthood I looked “like I was about to cry” (don’t know where she got that from). She said in Sacrament I looked like I was about ready to bolt out of the room. I explained that I find the meetings a bit repetitive after 25 years of sitting through them, and not having time to do anything meaningful at Church to keep it interesting. Hate to confess that, but she drilled right into my inner psyche with her perceptiveness.
I have this feeling that unless I go back to All or Nothing again, my kids aren’t going to emerge with any kind of a solid philosophy. You can’t hide what you are!
Quote:I have this feeling that unless I go back to All or Nothing again, my kids aren’t going to emerge with any kind of a solid philosophy. You can’t hide what you are!
Then don’t try – at least not with your kids.
Allow them to feel good about being themselves by showing them what it’s like (and that it’s ok) to be yourself.I’m not saying you should dump all of your concerns on them, but my kids know when I don’t agree with something that we hear at church. We talk about it openly and honestly – and I make a point of making sure they know I attend because it’s where I want to be and because I love the overall grandeur of “pure Mormonism”.
My oldest daughter is expressing things right now (away at college) that make me believe she is in the process of sorting out how she will end up viewing religion, God and the Church – and we have been talking more regularly about some of her concerns and observations over the past few months than we did even when she was at home. She’s able to do that now largely because we talked so openly when she was a teenager at home. If I hadn’t been open with my kids in those stages, I’m not sure they would be so open with me now.
I believe the most “solid” philosophy it is possible to have is that which one crafts intentionally and personally. Let them see you crafting yours, and the chances are much better that they will work on crafting ones of their own.
You can’t give them a solid philosophy, but you can model for them an attempt to craft one.Old-Timer wrote:I believe the most “solid” philosophy it is possible to have is that which one crafts intentionally and personally. Let them see you crafting yours, and the chances are much better that they will work on crafting ones of their own. You can’t give them a solid philosophy, but you can model for them an attempt to craft one.
Well said Ray! +1
SilentDawning wrote:Also, my daughter, who is very discerning pulled me aside and asked me if I was contemplating going in active. How perceptive for a 12 year old when I’m always on guard not to express my true feelings. She said that at the end of priesthood I looked “like I was about to cry” (don’t know where she got that from). She said in Sacrament I looked like I was about ready to bolt out of the room. I explained that I find the meetings a bit repetitive after 25 years of sitting through them, and not having time to do anything meaningful at Church to keep it interesting. Hate to confess that, but she drilled right into my inner psyche with her perceptiveness.
You are a blessed man with a potential lifetime of love as a father. Give that girl a hug.
Korash wrote:Yesterday was the day I was dreading. I knew I had to come clean with my bishop and the men I work with in Young Men and ask to be released from my calling. I pulled each one aside and explained my situation. I was surprised how understanding and supportive they were (unlike my best friend, who I confided in last week, and who pretty much treated me as a traitor and offered me the fit-the-mold-or-hit-the-road ultimatum). All in all, it was the most spiritual Sunday I have had in a long time.
Korash
I’m rejoicing with you, Korash.
SilentDawning wrote:I have this growing feeling that my reputation as an active member has been destroyed with my experience a year and a half ago. It’s hard to go to a community that believes that about you.
If you want social status (a high profile reputation), then you have to play the game by their rules. You must obey the law of the group. This is true in any community regardless of religion. People will think whatever it is they are going to think about you. You don’t even know what everyone really thought of you even when you were in a high-profile, high-status position. People in those social dynamics are loved for what they do for others, not so much for who they are as a person.
I promise that it is possible to attend and not give a flying fudge about what people think of you. I push the envelope every Sunday. I have friends in my ward still, and there are people who show genuine care for me.
Which do you want? Status or happiness? What kind of husband and dad does your family want? Respectable or happy?
Brian Johnston wrote:SilentDawning wrote:IIf you want social status (a high profile reputation), then you have to play the game by their rules.
I’m not sure I cared about a “high profile reputation”, although I believe I did have one prior to my situation a year and a half ago.
I cared and continue to care about feeling a sense of respect or kindness from the leaders and members at large, however. And that is gone — the fact that the leaders I once sat in meeting with dealt with my situation by simply ignoring me, and that none of them ever talk to me anymore speaks of a kind of interpersonal shunning that bothers me. When I do try to talk to them, it’s brief and they usually move on. One former assistant describes my last ditch attempt to get released as “going off the deep end”, although there was never any in appropriate or unbridled emotion displayed over it.
I have this feeling that because I’m no longer of much use to them anymore, their interest in any sort of social contact is pretty much gone. That bothers me, because it reinforces the notion that the Church likes you when you are a source of free labor, and then loses interest when you stop being such. I’ve never liked feeling disposable, or used, in any situation.
There is one brother, with a famous LDS last name who approached me last Sunday, though, and said something I appreciated “Silentdawning, I was going through some papers and found our meeeting agendas and minutes back when you were HPGL. I just want to say that the time I spent serving with you was probably the most-well organized time I ever spent in a HP group”. That was meaningful to me, as it showed that he appreciated what I had done, and had interpersonal kindness and charity, notwithstanding the terrible, rocky ending. It had nothing to do with reputation, it was about kindness and a sense of appreciation.
I honestly believe it is time to move again. It’s the nature of relationships to be like snow. At first, it’s white, soft and fluffy. But as time and experience interacts with the snow, it gets brown, dirty and wizzed-on by dogs, and eventually, it’s time to melt away, or be replaced with new snow. It’s the nature of relationships, and experience in Wards.
However, I would like to follow-up by asking you — what are the attitudes that you carry with you when you go into a Ward, as a non-temple recommend holder with lots of divergent ideas, and probably NOT following the party-line of the tribe. How do you maintain a sense of belonging when you are clearly not playing the game by their rules, and are therefore probably an outsider?
Also, how do you feel about the fact that being a bit of an outlier may well deny you of opportunities you might want to have at some point in the future?
Tom Haws wrote:Which do you want? Status or happiness?
Happiness first, status, I don’t care about, and a feeling of belonging or being at least somewhat appreciated.
Quote:What kind of husband and dad does your family want? Respectable or happy?
My wife doesn’t care about status or reputation, my kids have been raised to be egalitarian and so far, don’t seem to care one iota about status or reputation. Read my response to Brian above about my full orientation.
Quote:I’m finding the bright spot is my kids and my wife. This whole Church thing is important to them. I’m wondering if I should simply support them and make THAT my Church experience. Accept callings that are more activity and temporally oriented that benefit my kids. I feel that’s all I can hope for now.
That may very well be enough reason to put up with the things that annoy you. It’s not just about you, after all, is it?
I don’t mean that in a patronizing way SD, I really don’t. Just that if you have that as a bright spot, I count you a lucky man! That’s a pretty glaringly big bright spot to have. Your kids sound amazingly mature, you have taught them well. You must feel they like having you there at church with them, right? Focus on that. That is what I do, and it fills my heart with love…which is what church is all about IMO.
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