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What do we know about children of Joseph Smith’s 30+/- marriages? Are there DNA tests of alleged descendents? Are there studies of contemporary attitudes toward birth control and abortion? I’d like to see all related information laid out on the StayLDS table if we are up to it. What I have read of the tests performed nothing is conclusive. What Orson said. There are, I think, three instances remaining where some people think there might have been offspring, but the actual testing that has been done on other “possibilities” has been negative thus far – working strictly off of memory right now.
Here’s presentation by Ugo Perego. http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2008_Joseph_Smith_DNA_Revealed.html It’s a few years old (2008). For those with undiagnosed adult ADD like me
There have yet to be any confirmed descendants of JS outside of his marriage to his first wife Emma. Said another way: Although there have been rumors, isolated accounts, and circumstantial evidence for offspring from Brother Joseph’s polygamous relationships, this has never been confirmed. I understand that The Joseph and Emma foundation stand willing to accept any descendants of JS and would accept a DNA test as “proof.” There does seem to be numerous documented reports of there being an element of sexual intercourse in (at least) many of the marriages. Why this did not result in offspring is anyone’s guess. Tom Haws wrote:Are there studies of contemporary attitudes toward birth control and abortion?
I’m not quite sure what you are referring to here. Are you suggesting there may have been a form of birth control or abortion that prevented the births? I have never heard that before. A common theory is that the children would be given to other couples to raise as their own to prevent the suspicions of why so many “single” mothers in Nauvoo.
While I was writing Ray & M&G posted. If any of the info has been duplicated, please forgive.
Tom Haws wrote:What do we know about children of Joseph Smith’s 30+/- marriages? Are there DNA tests of alleged descendents? Are there studies of contemporary attitudes toward birth control and abortion? I’d like to see all related information laid out on the StayLDS table if we are up to it.
My favorite conspiracy theory about this was that maybe John C. Bennett was performing abortions and that could be one reason there are no known descendents of Joseph Smith and any of these wives other than Emma.
Abortion is a possibility, but birth control is less scandalous. Just to get everything on the table, we don’t have to stick to the extremes, we can cover everything on the spectrum too. What were contemporary attitudes and practices on birth control? Any Nauvoo stuff about that? But where abortion is concerned, I wish I had some sense of the general sensibilities of that day, and of Joseph Smith, regarding it.
Things just aren’t totally adding up for me about the whole polygamy/polyandry affair. And I’m wondering if there may be some sliver of data that somehow I have missed. I’ve read about John C. Bennet’s mention of abortion, but why nothing about birth control? And why no conclusive DNA tests or photographic resemblances to indicate children? Joseph wasn’t sterile, and neither were all his wives. What was life like back then? What was going on?
Should we maybe gather here the key original sources?
Honestly, Tom, I don’t care enough to try – and I want to emphasize that I personally don’t like speculation about stuff like abortion in any instance, not just relative to Joseph. I really don’t like conspiracy theories in general, and that one just doesn’t have any interest for me. You are excused from that part of the discussion, then, I guess. 
Regarding DNA tests, I accept them, and it seems to me that even if there is a DNA match on one or two possible JS polygamy offspring, it still is very scant to account for 30 +/- marriages. Shouldn’t we see a handful of children at least? How many pregnancies did it take in those days to produce a grandchild? Maybe I need to go read In Sacred Loneliness.
Wikipedia lists five possible children, I see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_Joseph_Smith,_Jr Thank you, sir. 😆 I’ve heard the John C Bennett stuff, but I don’t think that is reliable information. Don Bradley gave a presentation about Fanny Alger at the MHA meetings last year. In his paper, he quoted stories saying that Fanny appeared to be pregnant, and Joseph (1) sent Fanny away to avoid scandal and Emma’s wrath, (2) he went on a spur of the moment trip to Massachusetts at the same time to avoid appearances of impropriety. Apparently Fanny had a hastily arranged marriage to a non-Mormon soon after. Bradley states that if Fanny had a child, it either was still born or died soon after birth. No birth certificate from the time period exists so it is unknown if Fanny was pregnant. (She went on to have 9 children.) Richard Bushman believes the evidence about Fanny’s pregnancy is weak.
There is another story about Eliza R Snow. Supposedly, Emma was furious with Eliza about something, and some have speculated that Eliza may have been pregnant. As the story goes, Emma shoved Eliza down the stairs at the Mansion House, inducing a miscarriage. The story has been documented in some books, but Richard Bushman discounts these stories in Rough Stone Rolling. I blogged about this a few years ago. If you’re interested in these and other stories, see
http://www.mormonheretic.org/2009/06/14/bushmans-perspective-on-polygamy-alger-and-snow/ There is no question that the lack of other offspring presents the most compelling case that JS did not practice polygamy, at least in the carnal sense. It is quite possible that he sealed himself to many women but did not actually engage in sexual intercourse with them. I think that the lack of more offspring pretty much assures that is the case. Destroys the idea that JS was some kind of lecher and could even account for Emma’s refusal to believe he practiced polygamy. This is an area of inquiry that needs much more study. If JS didn’t view polygamy as something to be carnal, rather than spiritual alone, then it does seem to raise serious questions about BY and those who followed that path, and brings into question whether they were truly inspired by God let alone prophets. Of course, it also raises other, troubling issues. From the entirely negative side-why would JS have put down the “prophecy” anyway, if he did not seek to use it for sexual satisfaction? From a more positive side–did he not understand the prophecy? Was he confused by it? Did he carry it out reluctantly, even if only in a non-carnal sense? JS was a very powerful figure with a vast ego and a charisma that could bring men and women to him. The questions on his polygamous activity abound. Curt
In Believeing HistoryBushman implies that Joseph struggled with the polygamy revelation. Joseph clearly recalled Jacobs admonition against anything like polygamy. Joseph also did love Emma. The lack of children may have come from this struggle. Could he have been trying to straddle two commandments from God. It is also very possible that he was busy. It’s hard for us as readers to imagine how intense the early church period was-for good and for bad. Along with constant migration, community reestablishment, jail and court time. Not to mention trying to study languages, re-translate the bible and so on. Time to be with anyone was probably lacking. Brigham Young had more time to increase his posterity. One final thought. Joseph and Emma lost children. Though they had others maybe Joseph was reluctant to risk that pain again. There really is just so much we don’t know. Which leaves us with only speculation.I found some information on this yesterday. I may paste some of the direct quotes. curt wrote:Destroys the idea that JS was some kind of lecher and could even account for Emma’s refusal to believe he practiced polygamy.
Actually, the historian consensus is that Emma knew about polygamy, witnesses some of the weddings, occasionally made peace with Joseph over it, and at other times was (appropriately, IMHO) was positively and vocally indignant with Joseph about it.
The public face of Emma was consistently one of denial. But Joseph and Hyrum and Brigham (and others) knew she knew.
To me, the most troubling aspect of polygamy/polyandry (off the topic of this thread) was that Joseph consistently lied about it through the entire ten years, and never repented. That’s not good religion.
The lying and secrecy bother me the most, but I also understand it if Joseph really did believe it was a command from God and part of the restoration of all things – and if he knew the practical result of making it public knowledge. He had Abraham lying about his marriage to Sarah as an example, and he had Emma’s feelings to consider (as ironic as that sounds given the situation). I don’t think the overall evidence supports the argument that he was a lecherous guy who just wanted to get more action, even as I can’t rule out the possibility that he had active hormones that played a role in his beliefs regarding the overall situation. I really do believe the whole topic is VERY complicated – but the lack of proof of children (and the tests on suspected lines that have been negative), the lack of accounts of long-term, continued sexual activity and the multiple “forms” of marriage and sealing that occurred throughout his life point more to a man who was trying to understand and implement something he didn’t fully grasp than to a randy guy out to get all he could get, imo.
The DNA issue is a big “plus” for Joseph, I believe – even if it probably never will be conclusive.
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