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I’d like to start a discussion on how we approach raising our kids, and share with each other any good experiences doing this. I have thought a lot as I redefine my faith, how to let go of some things the church teaches without letting go of a value system that helps teach my kids. I have found that while I can embrace a symbolic or metaphorical view of many church teachings, I get a bit tongue-tied teaching some things to my kids without sounding like nothing really matters…you make it what you want, and I’m not sure that is the right message I intend to teach my kids.
Quote:D&C68: 25 And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be upon the heads of the parents.
It is hard enough to navigate oneself through a crisis of faith, but doing that and also teaching your kids in a way that helps them is a challenge.Maybe you can share with the group some areas that you have avoided, some you have specifically talked to them about, and how you feel you are supporting them.
To start the discussion, my first question is around this topic:
If you take some Sundays off of church, and your kids still go, how do you try to explain to them that it is OK to miss periodically without them getting scared Dad (or Mom) is leaving the church or going to hell, or worse … preventing the rest of the family from being an eternal family?PA: My answer — you can’t. At least, not in my experience. I have done it twice in the last two years for a period of 1-2 months. Both times, I saw a huge drop in commitment from my son, and my daughter. My daughter approached me about whether I was going inactive, and I had to skate around my true feelings. My son started asking to stay home with me.
I have reached the conclusions that you have to go. You have to find ways of making it tolerable. Here are a few things I have tried that have worked:
1. We went to an entirely different Ward one week. We taught our kids that when you need a break, that’s what you do, and also, that you have get people to fill in for your callings. That way you are being dependable, but still meeting your need for a break.
Being in a different Ward added a distracting newness to the whole experience as we compared the cultures and had fun predicting the reactions of the people to our visit there. We are going to do that again as a break without teaching inactivity.
2. We had a family discussion and agreed we would allow each other to read during sacrament meeting, provided it was done inconspicuosly and was of an uplifting nature. We have decided to sit at the back of the chapel so we are not flagrant about it.
3. Skip PH opening exercises for a while. Go and set up the room you are in for the next meeting, if necessary, and wait there. People will think you were kind to serve them.
4. Skip one of the meetings and go for a drive and the come back, or find a quiet place to read or do something on a hand-held device.
5. Offer to teach a class as a substitute, and have a message about general spirituality ready. That can make class interesting.
That’s all I have. I know for sure my own kids showed a huge drop in commitment last time I stayed home for more than 1 Sunday. You have to go…..
If memory serves, we’ve discussed this twice previously. (That’s NOT a complaint, since it’s fine to discuss something more than once. It’s just me being me.) 🙂 I’ll try to find the other threads and post the links.
“Preparing our kids for the hard stuff” (
http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=763&hilit=parenting “Scary Thoughts Arisin'” (
http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2302&hilit=parenting I kept my kids going to church until they were about 18. I tried to instill all the morals and values in them from the time they were young. But after all that, and all the horrible experiences they had in ym/yw, at some point it was difficult to keep making them go to any ward in the church. When your kids come home from church in tears or angry keeping them going is difficult. So when they sat down and reasoned with me, in an adult mature way, why they couldn’t attend church anymore, I let them choose to do what they wanted. We all stopped going for a while, then my son moved out on his own 1600 miles away and attends chruch, but it isn’t the LDS church. My daughter is so hurt from her time in yw and they way the other girls treated her and angry with the culture of the church that she will probably never set foot in any chruch again. Its hard to teach kids the gospel and not have any support from leaders. I am not the only single mom who has gone through this before, most of the other single moms I know have had similar experiences with their kids. You’d think some one would notice that single parents need support not judgement, that the kids of single parents don’t need to be told since they aren’t ‘covenant’ they are not good enough, that they won’t be a family because of circumstances beyond their control. Yes, both my kids were told since their parents weren’t married in the temple they were not covenant therefore not good.
That’s so sad to hear, Arwen – especially when we know it just shouldn’t happen. The gap between the ideal and the real in so many situations is so wide – and it hurts, and it damages and it stinks. Fwiw, I have unshakable confidence that “pure Mormonism” in this regard doesn’t condemn them for their choices – that God will credit to them the fact that they are acting “according to the dictates of their own consciences” in the decisions they made and are making. The ideology of an Atonement wrought by someone who actually understands rejection and unfair scorn is FAR more powerful and expansive than the Church and the membership, and that is a comfort to me – even as I mourn for those who suffer so needlessly and unjustly. In fact, I think the power of the Atonement is most visible in just these cases – where the LDS membership can’t quite grasp that people like your children will be blessed every bit as much as those who never leave. We expect so much more of “our own” and see so poorly how WE let them down and drive them away – and, while I realize how natural that tendency is, I wish badly that we all could rise above it.
Arwen wrote:I kept my kids going to church until they were about 18. I tried to instill all the morals and values in them from the time they were young. But after all that, and all the horrible experiences they had in ym/yw, at some point it was difficult to keep making them go to any ward in the church. When your kids come home from church in tears or angry keeping them going is difficult. So when they sat down and reasoned with me, in an adult mature way, why they couldn’t attend church anymore, I let them choose to do what they wanted. We all stopped going for a while, then my son moved out on his own 1600 miles away and attends chruch, but it isn’t the LDS church. My daughter is so hurt from her time in yw and they way the other girls treated her and angry with the culture of the church that she will probably never set foot in any chruch again. Its hard to teach kids the gospel and not have any support from leaders.
I am not the only single mom who has gone through this before, most of the other single moms I know have had similar experiences with their kids. You’d think some one would notice that single parents need support not judgement, that the kids of single parents don’t need to be told since they aren’t ‘covenant’ they are not good enough, that they won’t be a family because of circumstances beyond their control. Yes, both my kids were told since their parents weren’t married in the temple they were not covenant therefore not good.
I’m sorry to hear this too. My daughter has had similar experiences, although they have been bullying experiences. But she loves the temple, and is spiritual. I hate to destroy that, so I protect her from myself. To her, the world is still new and the service fresh and exciting. I have no place robbing her of that with my old cynical, dented, worn-out testimony.
I also take comfort in the scripture that says that in the end all of God’s judgments will be just and we will acknowledge that. The billions who have lived, all agreeing? We must be in for some huge forms of mercy someday.
What we did was offer lots of religious diversity, often talking and learning about other faith communities and world religions. We all believed in lots of laughter, sometimes directed toward ward leaders who practiced a “only one single way back to heaven” theology. My son told me recently, “Dad until I was thirty-five, I thought every Mormon household had a copy of No Man Knows My History on their coffee table, or monthly issues of the Saints Herald (RLDS) in their bathroom. You raised us on LDS magazines and books, enhanced with a good display of alternate view magazines and books across the room. I read them all from the age of twelve on.” Strangely enough, most of my offspring are TBM today. Knowledge doesn’t hurt, knowledge informs, so decisions can be individually arrived at. Problems need to be addressed, in religion, as in all things. George wrote:Knowledge doesn’t hurt, knowledge informs, so decisions can be individually arrived at. Problems need to be addressed, in religion, as in all things.
I like that approach. I guess I don’t think it is too strange they are mostly all TBM. I think the type of spouse they find and their approach to religion is very influential. And it sounds like you raised them with open minds and open hearts where they can decide how to be as a family … not against it or bitter … and I think that is good. That is what I want to do…not persuade them one way or another, but let them decide.
Thanks for sharing. I think like most people say…love is the most important thing…in religion, as in all things.
PA I agree with what others have said, and I too think you have to go or your kids will either not want to go or will dig in and believe you are going to hell. It’s highly unlikely you’ll avoid those extremes. Plus, it’s good for us to do things that are difficult. If it doesn’t kill you, it makes you stronger, right? Your kids are growing up in the culture of church, but also in the culture of your own home. If your home is one in which there are thoughtful discussions and your values are known, that will ultimately trump the other cultures. That’s why the church focuses so much on the culture we build in our homes – because it has a lasting impact. I have sometimes wondered if kids are given to us as the only way to keep us active in the church in our 30s and 40s when the need for it is probably at a low point, but we feel an obligation to give our kids the advantages we got from being members of the church. And the church is generally pretty terrific with the youth, IMO. Not universally – the manuals are appallingly bad, for example – but I’m constantly impressed by the leadership and confidence the youth display with ease compared to those raised in other faiths.
I agree with Hawkgrrl. My wife is getting more and more disaffected with our Ward (not so the much the Church, but definitely, our Ward) and we have to be VERY careful about what we say around our children. They pick up attitudes really fast at home. So, when we want to express our feelings about being members of this Ward where youth activities are terrible, nasty notes are circulated about us as leaders to the Ward council, weak programs since no one does their callings, we do it behind closed doors or out of earshot. I don’t know man … *sigh* None of my kids are active anymore. They are all seriously awesome kids though, and they have their head screwed on more straight than my wife or I. I would like to take some small amount of credit for that. I wish my kids were more open to going to church. They’re just not interested and I can not make them go to church (per agreed negotiation with wife, she can also not forbid them from going).
We talk about anything and everything with our kids. There are actually good, practical reasons for living most of the clean living standards of the church, and it’s actually less of a rebellion issue when there’s no huge God waiting to strike them down in addition to the natural consequences.
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