- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
Awhile back, I decided to sit down and actually try to figure out why I have remained a practicing member of the Church despite the things about it that cause me such anxiety and frustration. Here’s what I came up with: 1. I’m afraid to leave. Maybe the Church really is true! (This is where the anti-Mormon folks would say I was indoctrinated as a child.)
2. Where else would I go? Christianity is so much a part of my life, and while I am not convinced “beyond the shadow of a doubt” that the Church is true, I pretty much
am convincedthat no other Christian denomination is. 3. My two grown children have been inactive for years. I still want badly enough for them to someday return that I have to stay if I hope to ever see them return to activity.
4. Everyone I know thinks of me as a believing member of the Church. I’d have an awful lot of explaining to do! (Many of them do realize that I’m a bit left of center in terms of some of my opinions concerning issues such as same-sex marriage, etc., but they don’t have so much as a clue as to what all of my internal struggles really are.)
5. If the Church is true, I owe it to my husband to remain faithful to my temple covenants.
I could elaborate on any of these reasons, but for now, I’ll just see if they generate any discussion here. I’m curious as to your thoughts. (I apologize if this subject has been driven into the ground a million times already. If it has, maybe a moderator could just move this post to one of those threads and delete this one entirely.)
I stay because: 1) I prayed about whether I should join. After months of getting nothing, and abandoning the whole idea, I prayed on a whim one night and felt the Spirit very strongly.
2) My wife and kids are in it. My wife believes it, has a TBM family, and my daughter loves being a Mormon, the temple and such.
3) Yep, I’m afraid of condemnation if I totally quit.
4) I don’t like being a service project.
5) I like the clean living and the good people when they are not irritating me.
Frankly, my testimony is a blessing but often a burden. If I said that over the pulpit I’d be lambasted, I’m sure. A blessing because it has helped me live a clean life and for many years, gave me a sense of security that I was one of God’s elect, a priesthood holder, protected or looked after. A burden because my natural inclination now is to just live my life according to the dictates of my conscience alone, and that could mean leaving the temple out of it, finding new sources of spiritual nourishment on Sunday etcetera, not paying tithing to the extent expected, probably not home teaching, an definitely not getting involved in cold calling less actives, or splits with missionaries. To name a few, including moving. A burden because of some of things things I felt I had to endure in my life to stay true to the gospel. They sapped much of my positivity and strength.
Katzpur, Your reasons for staying are very similar to my reasons for staying. I was not indoctrinated as a child, I joined the church as an adult. Hmm.
I think the over ridding reason most people stay that have serious questions is friends and family. If I had no family or friends that were members and leaving would not impact anyone but myself I most likely would stop attending on any kind of regular basis. As far as staying because the church may be what it claims, well that ship sailed for me some time ago. I think the probability of that is next to zero. But I am open minded enough to say I really do not know. It is just that the demands of the church are greater then the probability that it is true in any real way. So staying for truths sake is not really an option for me. I love what I see as “pure Mormonism”. I love the people, speaking collectively, and like most of the people.
I’ve been a weirdo for so long in the Church that being different doesn’t bother me.
I am a church geek.
I have been able to help lots of people in my callings and by staying actively involved.
I have constructed my own faith, and it fits best within the broad framework of pure Mormonism.
I get to associate with some really cool people online – AND all of you bozos.
:thumbup: Old-Timer wrote:I love what I see as “pure Mormonism”.
I love the people, speaking collectively, and like most of the people.
I’ve been a weirdo for so long in the Church that being different doesn’t bother me.
I am a church geek.
I have been able to help lots of people in my callings and by staying actively involved.
I have constructed my own faith, and it fits best within the broad framework of pure Mormonism.
I get to associate with some really cool people online – AND all of you bozos.
:thumbup: Ditto on every count.
And the weirdest thing is that my experiences with/in the church have dramatically improved since I abandoned my own expectation of conformity. I actually enjoy church a lot of the time because it’s an opportunity for me to serve others and be an example of what I believe.
When I was younger, I often felt like the lost sheep brought into the fold of the ninety and nine. I felt like the odd ball, the one who didn’t quite fit in. But as I got older, I realized there is no ninety and nine. We are all the one. And somewhere along the line I decided that instead of trying to fit into the imaginary fold of perfect saints, I’d create my own fold of people I care about, people who need me, people who are lonely, hurting, distressed, people who are my friends. Lucky for me, I get to go to church with many of them.
Cadence wrote:I think the over ridding reason most people stay that have serious questions is friends and family. If I had no family or friends that were members and leaving would not impact anyone but myself I most likely would stop attending on any kind of regular basis. As far as staying because the church may be what it claims, well that ship sailed for me some time ago. I think the probability of that is next to zero. But I am open minded enough to say I really do not know. It is just that the demands of the church are greater then the probability that it is true in any real way. So staying for truths sake is not really an option for me.
I’m open to that ship sailing, or that I do a 180 and go back to full faith and belief in it. I’m letting it play out as I study and think it through and understand what truth is and what possibilities there are to live a stage 5 kind of life. But I’d mostly agree with Cadence… family, friends, and social relationships are a big factor to motivate me to keep trying. Then there are other things that I have experienced and I’m glad I have stayed. I do find spiritual reasons from staying.I also often feel like katzpur put it: “where else would I go?” which ties into what Cadence is saying, I want to go where friends and family are.
For multiple reasons, I stay, even if it is not easy.
I have a lot of similar answers as Ray and Mercyandgrace. I don’t really have much pressure anymore (if any) from friends and family. I go because I like it. I like a lot of ideas that I think are nicely stated in Mormonism — broad concepts that I don’t find so much in one package elsewhere. I am not so attached to specific interpretations of them though. I like being Mormon. But…
I have also been a goat in the flock of sheep my whole life. I am extremely comfortable at this point in that role. I also radically changed my expectations and my relationship with the Church. I am very comfortable setting boundaries with the organization.
Interesting, some of us are in toleration mode of the Church right now, while M&G, Brian and Ray have found intrinsic reasons for staying. I like it that M&G actually likes going and has her circle of people she cares about. I felt that way in the beginning when I served in the context of being a conformist, but that has all changed. However, I’m wondering if stripping it all away and then adding back what truly motivates you is the way to go after you hit the trial of faith or commitment that dislocates the whole experience.
Heber13 wrote:Cadence wrote:I also often feel like katzpur put it: “where else would I go?” which ties into what Cadence is saying, I want to go where friends and family are.
When I said, “Where else would I go?” I wasn’t thinking in terms of being where friends and family are. I was thinking more along the lines of feeling as if I’ve already rejected all of the other real options. I can’t simply stop believing in God. He’s far too real for me. The Eastern religions really don’t do it for me. They all pretty much just leave me cold, primarily due to the lack of a personal God. While there are things about Judaism and Islam that I find attractive, I really can’t quite give up the idea of Jesus Christ being the Son of God and the way back to God. So that leaves Christianity. But the idea of a Trinity (as defined in the Creeds) is so ludicrous to me that I couldn’t possibly identify with Catholicism or Protestantism. There are too many other reasons why traditional Christianity doesn’t cut it for me. Mormonism is what I want to believe. It’s the way I think God’s whole plan ought to work. I want it to be true so much that I am willing to just go along, hoping it is.Hi All, Katzpur said:
Quote:1. I’m afraid to leave. Maybe the Church really is true! (This is where the anti-Mormon folks would say I was indoctrinated as a child.)
I stay a believer (though inactive) mainly because of my spiritual experiences. Twice I went through a psychological hell agonizing whether to stay active or not, believing that I was cutting myself off from any chance of eternal life, but I just said to myself “HOGWASH !!”. I just felt unhappy socially attending church and I stopped full activity.
Holding yourself hostage because you feel you have to because it’s true is, in my humble opinion, extremely difficult on a person psychologically. Sometimes exploring a course of unusual action (try going to church less often, 2 or 3 out of every 4 sundays for a 3 month period and see how you feel about it, and see how fellow members and family behave, for example) may lead you to answers and perspectives you may not get any other way.
During one new period of inactivity years ago I had two interesting spiritual experiences:
1) my active wife asked for a priesthood blessing of healing.
I was hesitant to give it because I felt unworthy but | went ahead anyway and gave it. I laid my hands upon her head and I felt divine inspiration and priesthood power as I gave her the blessing. I was surprised. What I took away from the experience was that God understood my situation and was merciful and yet as unworthy as I felt, God, in a very real way, was saying “I understand how you feel. You are still worthy in my eyes even if you are at the present time inactive. I love you.”
2) went to the ward building where I became inactive, during off hour times, accompanying my mother, who was there to meet another sister-saint from the ward.
I sensed in the building a body of saints meeting in the building who were deceased . I knew of one sister who experienced feeling spirits in the temple while in the temple cafeteria. In this instance of my visit to the ward chapel I sensed spirits of saints in the spirit world meeting in our building – something I never contemplated before – that is, that after we die we still meet for meetings in church. It would be comparable to how people on tv programs about hauntings sense a person’s spirit in a house, but in this instance it was a church setting.
From this experience it made me realize how real or true the church is and the reality of the life hereafter and how natural it would be for spirits of the dead to assemble in a ward building for a church purpose. It definitely is a special experience I never would have expected because of my church inactivity, but it happened nonetheless.
BLC
BeLikeChrist wrote:My active wife asked for a priesthood blessing of healing.
I was hesitant to give it because I felt unworthy but | went ahead anyway and gave it. I laid my hands upon her head and I felt divine inspiration and priesthood power as I gave her the blessing. I was surprised. What I took away from the experience was that God understood my situation and was merciful and yet as unworthy as I felt, God, in a very real way, was saying “I understand how you feel. You are still worthy in my eyes even if you are at the present time inactive. I love you.”
Now that is cool. I love hearing stuff like that!I had a similar experience when I had my 7 years of semi-activity a decade ago. I continued to use the priesthood in the home and with home teaching families even though I didn’t go to Church every Sunday. In particular, it surprised me that my Bishop, after hearing me speak or teach occasionally said “I’m not worried about you because I always feel the Spirit when you speak or teach”. I think he meant he wasn’t worried about my character or ability to keep the basic commandments. I do believe God loves us and maybe even looks out for us even though our Church commitment is low, and that he appreciates righteous living whether it’s connected to hefty Church service or not. That was my take-away from the whole thing. I’m glad you liked that story Katzpur. And SD i understand you way better in regard to why you are here at stay LDS for things you’ve shared with me over the last little while. I read an article just recently about “why people become dechurched”. I did a look up in Google and found an article from a non-lds but christian site outlining why people stop attending church. Some of the topics fit you and I to a “T”. I will share the link to the site later. I have them favorited at home but I’m not home at present. I felt very interested in your dechurched concept BLC, so I went looking on my own for some articles. I found one below:
The article has a paragraph that really resonated with me:
Quote:
The dechurched need ministries of personal healing and recovery in order to address old wounds. It is possible to deny that one’s pain exists, pretend it is not there, or bury it deep within the soul. But sooner or later, it will reappear, often in ugly and unproductive forms. Through appropriate ministry, God’s spirit can change denial into truth-telling, bitterness into restoration, captivity into redemption. Especially for those who are dechurched because of abuse, trauma, or dysfunction, personal healing is an integral part of the journey. This process, which can take years, begins with providing an inner space where a renewed faith can gestate and ultimately form.This resonates with me because I’ve had about 4 very traumatic experiences/challenges in the Church. I never really deal with them — I “white-knuckle” my way through them and serve on the basis of testimony — in spite of them. And then, when newer challenges occur, the memories and beliefs spawned by the earlier experiences return, and this hurts my commitment.
You can try to rely on poorly trained local leaders or home teachers for advice, but I find all you get is the parable of the guy who was forgiven a huge debt, and then refused to forgive someone else of a lesser offence. And then, he gets put into prison by his own forgiver. And so, the conversation ends there, with myself feeling condemned and unworthy and left to my own devices.
Even here at StayLDS there has been advice just to “get past it”, or intimations a person is not being Christlike because they hold onto old chestnuts. None of this really helps. What helps is finding meaning in the Challenges –personal meaning and attitude conditioners you truly believe that help you move past it.
So, the ministry of personal healing has to come from within.
I honestly think M&G has figured out how to move past experiences and have read some of her coping mechanisms and thought control, and they help. Particularly the idea of looking at the hurtful experience with humility, and recognizing that just others have hurt me in the Church, so have I hurt others in so many other respects. In that sense, we share a common weakness. The Dhali Lama’s statement that all of mankind are in a search for happiness helps, as you realize these people who do the hurtful things are simply trying to further their own happiness, even though their efforts are short-sighted, as I guess mine are….stuff like that.
And most of all, recognizing that sometimes, you just need a bit of time. And that timeline may NOT be the timeline of Church leaders who want to push you into another calling, or get you back on the current TR holder list.
I also like his comment below that you have to “decontaminate the Bible”, which for Mormons, would mean “decontaminate the Church experience” — including lame interpretations of scripture, destructive cultural values, and the comments of well-meaning but misguided, judgmental members. And according to this author, includes reconstructing your whole experience within the Church.
Quote:
Unnoticed, the dechurched rarely get to ask the essential question, “How can I restore damaged faith?” Instead, they are left to wonder, “How can I get as far away as possible from this wounding experience?” Before that happens, the church needs to provide vehicles for safe, healing relationships that support the dechurched as they struggle to dismantle their damaged faith and rebuild it from the ground up.This reconstruction process admits of no quick fixes or easy paths. It calls for a gradual restoration that encompasses four areas: engaging in personal healing and recovery; identifying systemic issues within one’s situation; decontaminating the Bible; and reworking one’s theological understandings.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.