One True Church

Journey3,

You raise an important question, and a sticking point for many.

We belong to a church that claims to be the one true church on the face of the earth, the one true church with the one and only way back to the presence of our Savior & Father in Heaven.

What if I allow the Church to claim that, and while on my personal journey, I honestly say that I do not know this to be true at this moment? But I believe in the Church, and want to align myself with it, while I continue to seek truth. Could I not still stay and be a part of the Church while I am striving in faith?

I am required as a Latter Day Saint to be in agreement with ALL that is Doctrine that is promoted by our church.

Could I not say that I don’t know that ALL the Doctrine is true, but I hope to find out some day? Meanwhile, I wish to sit with the Saints and let the Church bless my life, and serve to help others, despite my lack of a sure knowledge. Do you think they would kick me out until I have a sure knowledge, and only then I could return?

I think the Church invites us to believe what they claim. I do not think they require it. There must be a personal spiritual witness of what the Church claims, but they acknowledge that does not automatically happen, or suddenly happen. It often happens over long periods of time…to me, that allows for variation in knowledge and faith while in process. That allows for a faithful, cafeteria-style approach, IMO. Would you agree?

What if I allow the Church to claim that, and while on my personal journey, I honestly say that I do not know this to be true at this moment? But I believe in the Church, and want to align myself with it, while I continue to seek truth. Could I not still stay and be a part of the Church while I am striving in faith?

If you believe in the Church is that not the same as believing it is true? I am confused.

I think the Church invites us to believe what they claim. I do not think they require it. There must be a personal spiritual witness of what the Church claims, but they acknowledge that does not automatically happen, or suddenly happen. It often happens over long periods of time…to me, that allows for variation in knowledge and faith while in process. That allows for a faithful, cafeteria-style approach, IMO. Would you agree?

I don’t believe at all the the Church invites us to believe what they claim, it is expected that you do especially if you want to be a member in good standing, have a temple recommend, etc. It has been explained as simply as this to me, pray to know if Joseph Smith was a Prophet, if you believe he was then EVERYTHING else is true and should not be left to our personal interpretation.

At this point I don’t believe he was for many different reasons, and while I do believe the church has some truth and some good in it that does not constitute me agreeing with it is the one True church on the face of the earth today. I absolutely believe this church has an ALL IN approach and because I do not have this it creates great confusion in my life. It has left me wondering…if my family were not LDS and my neighbors and my co-workers and my friends would I stop trying to manipulate the doctrine to my liking, would I get out of Middle Mormonism? In Hebrews the Lord himself warns of us being lukewarm. If we know the truth of the Doctrine and know exactly what the church is saying and we choose to ignore it anyway so we can keep our lives comfortable and never have to take a stand and be courageous how good is that?

In your question

what does true mean to me?

The definition of truth is fact. To me on a personal level iI cannot support many of the facts about the LDS Church.

I did read the How to Stay article and was saddened by it. At this point in my life I have felt like I know to much to stay but I don’t want to leave. The only reason for not wanting to leave was not having the courage to tell friends, family and co-workers…and FEAR. I keep hearing how the church could not possibly ask us to leave even when we acknowledge all of our questions and I suppose that is true, but what about my choice to stay or go that is all I am concerned with not whether or not I am asked to leave for I refuse to live in fear.

There is a really clear bottom line here for me if I stay I am a Mormon, and in being a Mormon I am then a representative of the Church, taking upon myself it’s history, doctrines and teachings. The very saddest part to me is not hearing much about our relationship with the Lord but only with the Church, our Savior seems so lost in all of this while we struggle to do what is easiest, but maybe not what is best.

Journey3 – Being “buffet” or “Cafeteria” style anything is simply human nature. For example, what does “one true church” even mean? It means something different to each person. It could mean:

– God personally directs it on a daily basis

– God founded it, but people now run it

– it’s the best one a person has found

– it “works” for someone – they have spiritual experiences within the church

If you listen closely at church, you will hear many different interpretations of what “one true church” means to people. You may even hear one that suits you.

Going past that, though, one thing I hear in your introductory statement is something I see a lot in NOM and other places: people looking for their ‘soulmate’ church, the church that ‘fits’ them the best culturally and from a belief standpoint. I don’t think that’s a very useful approach, and I’ll tell you why with a parallel. People often look for a spouse who is a “soulmate,” but they find that marriage is hard work. There are incompatibilities, good days and bad days, and those pesky spouses actually have a mind of their own. There is no perfect match, only hard work to understand and grow within marriage. So it is in life, and even in church. That is my view.

I also believe that most of our disaffection with the church is truly cultural when we strip away all of the noise. Sometimes we don’t accept the values of the group or the things they take for granted as assumptions. But in my travels in life, I would say that any thoughtful person should always be partly at odds with the cultural norms around them. As Americans (or citizens of whatever nation) we should be sufficiently critical of our culture to see what can be improved or what puts us at odds with other nations. Likewise with being a member of the church. We should be thoughtful enough to know where we have values that differ or where we dislike certain assumptions that are put forth. We don’t have to look for a schoolyard brawl over it – it’s just important for us to know our own minds and values individually. I don’t need to go to church in an echo chamber, and the LDS church certainly is not that for me. Listening to differing views and values can be edifying. It can help us solidify where we agree and where we disagree.

I guess for me it has come down to what is the Church saying by one true Church? What does it mean to the Church as a body

This is even difficult to ascertain as each of the Q12 has a slightly different spin on it.

things such as temple recommend questions for example, they are clear, black and white you either agree or disagree, yes or no and that is what is expected of us

Just because they are yes or no doesn’t make them clear or black & white. Your “yes” might be my “no.”

I know I do not want to sit in church for the rest of my life only doing it for comfort or out of fear, I need it to mean more to me than…. that it has some truth and some good in it. I can’t stay because of the culture or because it is the easy thing to do.

I certainly agree with this. The point of the site is to help people find better reasons to stay, not to convince them to stay without good reasons.

It’s about me being true to God and to myself. I think it is sad commentary if we spend our whole lives in fear of letting our Bishop, our family or our spouse know that we have questions, and some serious questions.

Totally agree. Acting out of fear never leads to happiness.

But what if I do have answers and have done lots of research and there are some things I will never be in agreement with? Am I truly doing the right thing by staying or am I just being afraid?

There are some things that we can never have a definitive answer to, but we can develop a strong opinion based on the evidence we have. But when you say things you will never be in agreement with, that is a cultural values split. There is no perfect cultural fit on values between an individual and a group, and never can be. I wouldn’t stay because you are afraid to leave, far from it, but I would evaluate the idea that your values have to be identical to the group’s in order to be in the group. That’s just not possible. Every person sitting in that church has different values from the group in one or more way, whether they know it or not. My own view is that it’s best to know it and not to care.

right now I guess I am just trying to deal with the all of the hurt and sadness that something I believed to be a certain way really isn’t the way I thought it was and to figure out if I can embrace what I have found it to be

I think we all understand that. I sincerely hope we can help you do that and remain in or constructively engaged with the Church.

I will try to find links to previous posts about the “One True Church” topic and get them to you, but in the meantime, you might want to look through the archived posts for a while and see if you can find some of them – or look for any other posts that might help in some way. There’s a lot here that might apply to your questions.

As we say often here, just go slowly and give it time to develop and mature either way.

If you believe in the Church is that not the same as believing it is true? I am confused.

Hi Journey3. I too have gone through pain and disappointment. Though my experience is unique to me, there have certainly been similarities between our two paths.

I believe in you. I believe in me. I believe in God. I believe in the LDS Church. What does it mean when I say, “I believe in you”? How is that meaning different from when I say, “I believe in the Church”?

There is a really clear bottom line here for me if I stay I am a Mormon, and in being a Mormon I am then a representative of the Church, taking upon myself its history, doctrines and teachings.

I can understand the frustration about only knowing “white-washed” history. When we learn some of the unsavory bits, it seems like the whole thing was a hoax. But that is not necessarily the case. We are part of a Legacy. Yes that Legacy is a mixed bag but isn’t that the way of life. My grandfather is a dairy farmer. He doesn’t always make it to church (too much work). He tends to curse at the @#%* cows. I read a story from my mother’s remembrance where he broke my Uncle’s arm in anger. I was named after this grandfather. I love him and believe him to be a good man despite his unsavory parts. I represent him and take upon myself the history and the Legacy. I may not have answers about angelic visitations and other things, but there is sufficient courage, love, and hope in the Legacy of the LDS Church to inspire me.

But what if I do have answers and have done lots of research and there are some things I will never be in agreement with?

I assume you are talking about answers in the context of discovering the unsavory bits we were just talking about. I like to think on the answers of meaning. What does my life mean? What makes me of worth? These questions and others like them do not have black and white answers. I have found some answers for myself. I know them with such certainty that I believe the Holy Ghost is at work in implanting them into my soul. For me it hinges on knowing that Heavenly Father loves me, REALLY loves me. But I also recognize that others find truths in other ways and the answers they find may be different than my own. Because what I have is “true” and what they have differs from what I have, it would be easy to conclude that what they have is “false”. This would be a mistake.

I hope you find the answers that you are looking for…or maybe you will find your meaning in the search. Maybe you will tarry with us for a while, we are happy to share the road. If you feel up to it, I would enjoy learning more about the path you have trodden. Could you post an introduction? Lastly, I really do believe in you. I didn’t just say that in the context of providing an example. Wherever your path may lead, I believe in you.