Am I being punished?

No, you’re not – and please forgive Brian for the “dude” reference. He’s getting old and forgetful.

Fwiw, I’ve paid tithing non-stop all my life – yet my life for a few years was just like the man’s whom mom3 describes in the next comment.

Dudes and Dudesses:

Thanks everyone. My heart is not right about tithing in the traditional believer’s sense. In a way, I’m looking at the money I saved during the last year in keeping my tithing, and it brings me peace that it’s there to help me through this possible period of unemployment. A year ago, I reached the tentative belief that the principles of self-reliance and tithing are competing principles, and that I’m not entirely sold on the idea that tithing should always trump self-reliance. Apostate me.

Add to that tendencies towards a guilty conscience throughout my life, and you get angst of a different kind.

And guess what Ray, now that I know you all, Dude is fine.

No problem. It doesn’t bug me to be called Dude anymore.

I don’t think our Heavenly Father punishes us for not keeping the law of tithing…I think that sometimes we don’t recieve blessings from not paying it…and I say that skeptically because….I have always had a more easy life not paying than paying. I have no idea why, but when I am inactive my life runs 100% smoother, less money troubles, less stress levels, less worries, less heath care issues. I just assume as soon as I start to do the right thing, Satan decides to unleash on me. And sometimes I am more afraid of what he is going to do than what God is going to bless me with, so I opt to be inactive. Crazy thinkng there I know but sometimes thats how it feels to me.

Dude, dude, dude, dude . . . 😈

(says really fast..OK! Ok! Ok! Ok! Ok! that’s enough! 😆

In my opinion, SD, there is more to learn from how you are thinking and feeling about it, than trying to determine if the God of the Universe is actually planning a reduction in force at your employer’s to teach you a lesson.

Why do you think you should be punished? I would try to go deep into that thought, past the lifelong LDS teachings, and honestly ask yourself if you feel in your heart you should be punished. If so, choose to make a change (repent), so you can find more peace within yourself. If not, choose to work on detachments, so you don’t carry an unnecessary burden (also part of the atonement).

I think I feel this dread of punishment because of all the threats of burning and the guilt that gets laid upon us. Our super-ego, as Freud called it, is a product of our parents and institutions, and that super-ego gets super-fed at Church. So, for me, I feel working on detachments is the way to go. I’m starting to believe that self-reliance trumps tithing — and that self-reliance is NOT a direct result of tithing.

Tithing does produce certain virtues, but I’m not convinced that the payment of tithing to the Church is the only path to those virtues either. However, I’m not saying I wouldn’t choose to put it in the hands of the Church either. For example, if a person pays the total amount of their tithing in the form of a fast offering, does that not produce as much selflessness as paying it as a tithe? In fact, isn’t even more compassionate to the poor to do it that way? I’m only musing. Counterpoint is welcome

If we donate, but do it on our terms, perhaps there is still blessings from donating, but it is not exactly the same thing as paying tithing as we are taught.

Yes, I had that very thought when I was composing my post that you quoted above. But I am not sure about that anymore. The root of many of my problems stem from this wearing away of the belief that the Church’s policies and modern commandments are always an extension of God’s will. The flowing logic that “The Book of Mormon is true, then JS is a prophet, therefore the Church is true, and all of its decrees are mandatory” breaks down for me at the “therefore the Church is true” link. I seem willing to be able to acknowledge and embrace the goodness of the Church, without accepting everything literally anymore.

There are times when I feel we are there to serve the organization at the expense of what is good and right for us personally as well, which contributes to this idea.

I’m sure you will think it’s a dangerous place to be — traditional believers would definitely say “Yes” to that statement. Others will call me apostate. The good news is that I’m in flux and subject to change at any time, and have no commitment to my current ideas for the long-term. I’m alone and unstable in that regard.

I sometimes believe that God gave me a spiritual witness to join the LDS Church because it would produce ‘net good’ at the end of my life. That he lets us believe our own doctrines in our own microcosm, and even encourages them to the extent they encourage good and clean living. The same way he might encourage a truth-seeker withint he Baptist church to join that Church because in the end, it will help them be successful — and they are not seeking any other viable truth at the time.

Perhaps you remember my Ben Franklin quote where he said people within religions are like a group of men walking apart in a fog. Each person can see clearly around himself to a certain point, and therefore, thinks the whole world should see as he does. But in reality, he is as much in the fog as all the others around him, each of whom sees clearly within a certain limited range.

Is it possible God encourages to stay within the dimly lit fog in which find outselves when we ask, because doing so will produce net good in our lives, and we are not seeking anything better at the time?