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I have seen a quote attributed to Brigham Young that states:
Quote:Kneel and pray as if everything depends on God, then stand and work as if everything depends on you.
However, so far, I have failed to find a correct source stating that BY ever said that.
What I have found are sources from the following:
Aesop, ~550 BC in Ancient Greece wrote:Hercules and the WaggonerA Waggoner was once driving a heavy load along a very muddy way. At last he came to a part of the road where the wheels sank half-way into the mire, and the more the horses pulled, the deeper sank the wheels. So the Waggoner threw down his whip, and knelt down and prayed to Hercules the Strong. “O Hercules, help me in this my hour of distress,” quoth he. But Hercules appeared to him, and said:
“Tut, man, don’t sprawl there. Get up and put your shoulder to the wheel.”
The gods help them that help themselves.That fable not only references the axiom that the heavens help those that help themselves, but also “Put your shoulder to the wheel” as we sing in our hymn.
Sources reference St. Augustine of Hippo (354-430 AD) with the quote:
Quote:Pray as though everything depended on God and act as if everything depended on you.According to Jesuit scholar John W. Padberg, the following aphorism is attributed to St. Ignatius of Loyola (around 1540 AD)
Quote:Let this be the first rule of your undertakings: confide in God as if the success of those undertakings depended completely upon you and not at all on God; nonetheless give your whole self to the undertakings as if you yourself would be doing nothing in them but God alone would be doing everything.
St. Ignatius Loyola, The Jesuits: Their Spiritual Doctrine and Practice, p.148Actually, that sounds like he is preaching that we should pray as if everything depends on us, work as if everything depended on God. An interesting twist, however, I have found most people attribute the same adage referenced above from St. Augustine with St. Ignatius, so the interpretation is not so clear to me.
So far, I have not seen sources that state Brigham Young actually said this
(help me if you know of any), although it wouldn’t surprise me he did, as we often talked about being doers of the word, not hearers only. Even if he did say this (as he is often given credit in Mormonism), it is obvious he did not originate the saying. More importantly, I wonder what some on this forum think of this idea and how we apply it to our life and our struggles?
– Is God willing to help us find answers to our questions or resolve conflicts in life, only after He sees we set out to try to resolve these things ourselves?
– If we set out to find answers without relying on God, are we trusting too much in the arm of flesh (2 NE 4:34; 28:31), and justifying our lack of faith that God will provide?
– If we find answers, how do we know if
WE FOUNDthem or if God inspired us and helped us to find them? Does God help those that are helping themselves, or those that are relying on Him to help them?
Perhaps there are some that can share personal experiences to help make your point. Thoughts?
I don’t believe in the notion that God helps those who help themselves. I believe that God helps those who cannot help themselves. There are many a scripture to make this point but a couple of examples that come to mind are the thief on the cross and the publican in the temple with the Pharisee (Luke 18). Relying on your own strengths and feelings of righteousness (self-righteousness) is a concept I see often among members of the Church. Sure, its not an excuse not to perform. We should try to keep the commandments. We should love God and our neighbor. But there is nothing we can do to “help ourselves.” Christ died for us while we were yet sinners, dead in our sins and trespasses, etc.
If we try to resolve everything ourselves, are we not relying on the arm of the flesh and not on God, as you said?
As for the quote in question, I have never seen anything official stating Brigham Young said it.
There is also an interesting article on this subject. Both quotes, actually. It can be found at the BYU-I website. What doubtingthomas said, in principle – although I agree with the statement in the original post if viewed from the perspective of the parable of the talents. Maybe I would say:
God helps those who cannot help themselves (which is every single one of us in one way or another), AND he helps those who strive to magnify what he gives them by giving them more to magnify.
I for one believe both. I won’t list them, but I’ve seen it work both ways. Another angle I see is that sometimes we don’t like Gods help. Especially if it doesn’t look or feel like we assumed it should. It’s actually one of the things I hope will happen in heaven, not for guilt sake but for learning sake, is to see how often God helped everyone (or tried to) and how often we missed it or got it.
mom3 wrote:I for one believe both. I won’t list them, but I’ve seen it work both ways.
That’s an interesting point, mom3.Is God inconsistent with how He does His work? Some may need to be helped, and some may need to not be helped so they’ll get off their knees and work? How do we know what we should do?
doubtingthomas wrote:I believe that God helps those who cannot help themselves.
Doubtingthomas, does that imply that if you can do it yourself, you should trust in the arm of flesh? What things are you thinking about when you say this?
We can’t help ourselves for our salvation, right? But I can help myself to a new job, so He doesn’t need to help me on some things, but for repentance or salvation or things of that nature, we are all unable to help ourselves.
Are there things that God doesn’t care about to help us or do we pray to ask God about everything ? If so, what are those things?
Ask for help over everything in your life:
Quote:Alma 34:21 Cry unto him in your houses, yea, over all your household, both morning, mid-day, and evening.
22 Yea, cry unto him against the power of your enemies.
23 Yea, cry unto him against the devil, who is an enemy to all righteousness.
24 Cry unto him over the crops of your fields, that ye may prosper in them.
25 Cry over the flocks of your fields, that they may increase.
26 But this is not all; ye must pour out your souls in your closets, and your secret places, and in your wilderness.
Don’t ask for help on things you shouldn’t:
Quote:D&C 88:64 Whatsoever ye ask the Father in my name it shall be given unto you, that is expedient for you;
65 And if ye ask anything that is not expedient for you, it shall turn unto your condemnation.
D&C 8:10 Remember that without faith you can do nothing; therefore ask in faith. Trifle not with these things; do not ask for that which you ought not.
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