I feel like there isn’t any hope

Welcome, dude. (inside joke – sorry )

I hope we can help somehow. There are lots of posts and discussions about lots of topics in our archives, so feel free to comment on any of them and bump them up for further discussion among the group.

I think you’ll find there are plenty of people here who understand – some more fully than others with regard to some things, but pretty much everyone in one way or another. Rather than tackling everything in your introduction, I’ll just offer my support right now – and comment on anything in particular you want to discuss in another post about a particular concern. (Feel free to start a new thread about something in particular, or, as I said, find an older post that deals with it and comment on that one.)

Ray Dude — I get it, I do!

Welcome Dude, our opening poster…

Hey everyone, I just need somewhere to vent. I feel like I’ve completely lost my faith and no matter what I do I can’t get it back. I grew up in a non religious mormon family and did not become religious until college. Ended up serving a mission, but returning early due to family issues I felt I needed to be home for. I stayed strong after that for a year or two, then slowly started slipping away. (It’s hard when you’re the only one in your family). My friends who were religious rocks in the past, are slipping which Iead me to occasionaly have a beer (I wasn’t forced, just guilty by associations), I stopped reading scriptures, slowly stopped church attendance, stopped praying. I’m in no way a bad person, I help people, care about people, went to college, got a job etc. I have trouble walking on faith, I’m someone who needs evidence, not just a “warm fuzzy feeling”. I found myself seeing religious people as uneducated and relying on something make believe to save them instead of fixing their problems themselves. I’ve began to hate “Mormon Culture”. I hate it when you meet someone and you hear “Hi I’m so and so” “Oh hi so and so, I’m frank. Where did you serve”. I just tell people that I didn’t because it’s alot easier to say other than explain a situation that is none of their business. I can’t stand going to church for three hours either. Fast and testimony meetings are hell…. People give stories about how they have had miracles which they saw a sign from god from something stupid. I just think, “are you for real?” Just because you are walking in the park and see a butterfly, I doubt it’s god saying you need to go to BYU”. I feel like rules set forth by the church/prophet/god are restricting. I don’t know if it’s something I was born with, but when someone tells me no, I usually find a way to do it and then look back at them and say suck it. As you can see, I can’t really pinpoint where i’ve gone wrong. I don’t know if it’s an attitude problem with me or what. I feel like it is, but I haven’t had anything really reassure me about truth. I’m sure I’m not the first or the last to feel this way. But I’ve been wrestling this for two years and it’s tough. I feel torn. I even stopped wearing garments for a while but started again because as a general authority said, “A journey of a thousand miles, begins with one little step”. So I’m trying, but it seems like I go from gaining faith to nothing in a matter of minutes. I mean, I see Peter Priesthood and Molly Mormon walking down the street, and I want to hurl, Yet when I see the temple, hear hymns, I know that it’s right and true, but I think temple sessions are very creepy and masonic. (Yes I have researched antimormon material, just because I like knowing both sides). This is what I mean by torn! By the way, This is in no way supposed to be derogatory or demeaning to anyone, just how i’m feeling.

If you draw a Venn Diagram of your situation and mine (two circles that intersect, which you probably know but I’ll say it anyway since I’m a teacher and leave nothing to chance), you’ll find that I can relate to:

a) Boring meetings

b) Being the only one in my family (who are negative on the Church and somewhat anti-Mormon)

c) Not a huge affinity for the temple experience

d) Not enjoying certain aspects of Mormon Culture

e) Feeling spiritual warm fuzzies that point me in the Church direction, but feeling unsatisfied in it….

How do you learn to cope with it? I think each person has their own way, but I’ve seen themes in many of the posts here:

1. Do the habits of our religion for reasons other than the Standard Mormon Answers (SMA’s). Don’t do it out of blind obedience to the prophet, do it for reasons that speak to you personally. I have a few things I do now because of my own reasons and not the SMA’s.

2. I don’t bother with the temple unless I have to. I havent’ been for a couple years now, and I don’t miss it. But I leave myself open to embrace it again in the future.

3. In the absence of strong warm fuzzies in a different direction, I accept the warm fuzzies as the best encouragement I have to stay active in the Church.

4. I think you have an inkling of one coping mechanism — avoidance of the things that cause you angst in the Church. When you say you didn’t serve a mission, that’s avoiding the whole cultural “did you serve a mission” thing and all the social expectations and disexpectations that flow from it. I do the same with things like moving, cleaning the chapel, and working at the storehouse, and attending priesthood opening exercises. Makes a world of difference.

5. I have found peace in acknowledging that I know nothing really. No one knows the nature of the life after death for sure. We have people with very strong beliefs, who may even claim to see visions, but do they know for sure? We don’t know. They may even be misguided….so, liberate yourself from believing you have to know the truth, and do the best with the best evidence you have, which is for me, the spiritual feelings.

6. I’d try to hang out with good people who live the commandments you feel good about. That’s one reason I keep attending. You can’t beat the clean living of the people. I’ve been tempted by alcohol, even lately, but I don’t give into it because my internal compass just says not to…

7. Boring meetings? Yep — heard it all many times. That’s a hard one. Try to find things to do in the meeting without raising eyebrows. Small handheld devices are great for reading. I do it all the time. I read the scriptures, I don’t attend Sunday School because the teacher is boring boring boring, and instead, trade up and read alone in a room by myself; it makes private meditation extremely attractive when I think of sitting in Sunday School….you need to find your own ways of coping with the boredom.

8. Don’t let the LDS angst get in the way of your own spirituality. Sounds strange because all the preaching says that if you live the commandments, hold a TR, pay tithing, do all the things us priesthood holders and righteous people (women) should do, you’ll find peace and happiness.

Personally, I don’t believe it anymore. It’s been in precisely those times that I’ve been the LEAST happiest. Spirituality is to be had — and it is not dependent on moving, storehouse assignments, veil assignments and time wasting Stake meetings that are not based on a needs analysis. Again, don’t let the Church interfere with your personal spirituality.

Pray on your own for its own sake, not because it’s a commandment. Read wisdom literature because of the thoughts it triggers and the good it inspires you to do, not because of someone’s promise it will do XY and Z for you. I feel much happier now that I’ve set limits on what the Church is allowed to extract from me. Really, I do…the only thing that produces some unhappiness is the super-ego of conscience which I believe has been born out of years of listening to the party line. Slowly that is giving away to this sense of happiness to be free of believing everything literally, and realizing I’m a unique person with a unique way of viewing the world. And that I accept myself for who I am in the Church and out of it.

Good luck…you’ve listed a lot of issues above, you might consider picking the biggest one and starting a separate thread on it. You will probably get some good advice; move on to the next one after that. I’ve posted my individual issues here over and over again, and at times there has been posts which are dead on, and other times, there are posts which simply trigger ideas which lead me to my own conclusions….looking forward to being alongside you during the journey.

I do not think there is anything wrong with you. You are actually quite normal. You must understand it takes a fair amount of denial or some would say faith to maintain a belief in the church once you start to use reason and study other material.

Welcome. Fast and testimony meetings make me want to throw up. I found a fun testimony (thankamony) bingo sheet to fill out to cope. Sure it is irreverent… I love to stir the pot too. It is just my way of dealing with things.

I’ll put in my free opinion, you’re probably getting what you’re paying for as I’m new here too. Have you read the articles on the main website? I found them to be helpful. Be objective with anti-mormon content. It is often tainted and twisted by biased people.

I learned a valuable lesson from my grandpa. He would put out his cigarette in front of the church and go in and sit down. Who cares what people think. You can shut them up with their own doctrine if you really need to. (The church needs to smell like smokers more often ya know) Don’t be ashamed that you left your mission early etc.

I have been much happier since I began to take the gospel on my own terms. I’m an evidence based guy like yourself and have felt tremendously better about the church by taking the approach of taking baby steps and finding what I feel good about. For example, if you think JS was entirely wrong about the book of Abraham, can you take his work as art instead? What if that art does make you feel closer to God? Does it matter what history says if it is effective? Maybe the whole book came from a stone in a hat . If you really look at history you will find it to be subjective and even people with good intentions can mess it up. It is hard, if not impossible, to find pure religion that has not been tainted by the person who delivered it. People make mistakes.

In general, I’m going through a lot of the same issues as you as are many others here. I look at the rules the church makes as guidelines to live a happier life. I have alcoholics in the family, I have seen adultery and fornication ruin lives, I have seen pornography get out of hand and destroy people, etc etc. Some of the rules really help us out, others are pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Don’t give up, I’d like to hear more of your story in the forums.

I see Peter Priesthood and Molly Mormon walking down the street, and I want to hurl

I think your key is you like Mormonism, but you don’t like Mormons. Many of us can relate!

I agree with those who say avoid the things that set you off. It sounds like most of them are cultural anyway.

I have trouble walking on faith, I’m someone who needs evidence, not just a “warm fuzzy feeling”. I found myself seeing religious people as uneducated and relying on something make believe to save them instead of fixing their problems themselves.

I think this is true of many people, in all religions and even not in religions. People are lazy and superstitious. It’s a lot easier to be obedient as a way to get ahead than actually getting an education, knowing the right people, taking risks, etc. “Binding God” through obedience is, IMO, a lazy and rather arbitrary alternative.

As to walking in faith, though, I do think anything we do religiously requires faith. Reason has nothing to do with it. But maybe that’s a good thing that is useful for human development, provided we don’t think it’s like a spiritual lottery / misdirection / superstition thing.

As they say, feedback is a gift. Hopefully yours was received!

Fwiw, I have had and continue to have that sort of conversation with my Preisthood leaders – and they have been good about listening and trying to understand. I just spoke with one of them this past week about it, in fact. It’s been a bit uncomfortable in the past at times, but, overall, it’s been a net positive. Of course, my calling and orthoprax life (my social capital) help in that outcome greatly.