delete please

I agree there is a spiritual dimension, and I agree with Ray that it’s highly personal. Again, I quote the Ben Franklin quote that men see certain principle clearly (or at least, believe in them) and therefore consider everyone else to be in the fog. But to others, that man is as much in the fog as anyone else, because we can only see a few feet around us in the fog.

I also totally believe in the spiritual dimension to our existence here on earth. I think I’m starting to see it is greater than what the church can teach us about. The Church provides a good story to frame it that gets pretty close, but personal experience says it is much greater than what I thought in my prior years as an active member with mormon tunnel vision. I have been open to denying any kind of spiritual dimension in my life, and could not accept that based on my personal experiences. So I continue to try to understand it, and find mormonism to be a great guide in helping me, and also find I should not limit my experience with the spiritual dimension to the mormon version of it.

Spiritual experiences can happen to almost anyone, even atheists, since they also have a spirit. (I say “almost anyone” – since I’m not sure if sociopaths are capable of “feeling” in that way.) They might not recognize them as such (or, if they do recognize them as such, they might not attribute them to God in any way but rather to a spiritual connection that does not include God), but they do have them.

I think it’s less the ability to have spiritual experiences and more the inclination to attribute them as such (or as “divine” in some way) that is the biggest difference between people.

indeed Piper. spiritual experiences can happen to anyone who has faith in a supreme being. i have listened to people who have had experiences with God and many of them are not of the LDS faith.

Doesn’t it seem like in church that we discount spiritual experiences people of other faiths have? I have felt that way and am not sure why that is common (and probably common in most churches, right?).

We seem to think the Gift of the Holy Ghost allows enhanced spiritual experiences, is that not what we are taught? I can see the idea that commitment to God and His teachings would lead to greater spiritual life through faith. But would that not be the same for people of other faiths?

My personal experience has made me believe it happens as frequently and as powerfully for others. I don’t see many General Authorities claiming it happens only in our faith and not in others’, but it seems the members extrapolate meaning to believe that is the case, as if God is selective with His children.

This is the age-old question — is the experience from God, or not?

I have come to rest that if the spiritual experience is strong enough to change belief or motivate to action, it qualifies as personal truth. Whether it’s absolute is another story, but absolute truth in spiritual realms is hard to measure. It may well be that we are all acting within realms of personal truth at all times, and that God treats us individually, providing spiritual experiences that meaningful to US, as long as the end result is good for us….

I have a good friend who claims he saw eternity in a dream. He is a staunch, TBM member as a result. For me, it was the overwhelming “Baptism of the Holy Ghost” experience talked about in other Churches. I posted a question about the nature of testimony on a TBM site, and people claimed everything under the sun — from feeling “saved” from a life-threatening situation miraculously, dreams, highly improbable ‘coincidences’, burning in the breast, repetitive obsessive thoughts sent to their brain during prayer for a period of time, tears, spiritual emotion, or just a sense that the a certain truth is the right thing for them. Others claim visits from Heavenly Beings. One of my zone leaders said that his mind grabs the idea, like how a seatbelt clicks into its housing when you put it on. It is all over the map about how people arrive at truth, and their truth is often very different.

I have come to rest that if the spiritual experience is strong enough to change belief or motivate to action, it qualifies as personal truth. Whether it’s absolute is another story, but absolute truth in spiritual realms is hard to measure. It may well be that we are all acting within realms of personal truth at all times.

Very well stated SD.

It is all over the map about how people arrive at truth, and their truth is often very different.

I found an LDS blog that asked about what individuals believe about God’s promptings towards a potential spouse. The answers fascinated me with their diversity. Some felt that God wouldn’t intervene in this very personal decision and would only confirm your choice, but others had felt strong spiritual experiences towards individuals that they had just met or that they had known previously but for whom they had felt to prior romantic feelings.

There was one theory that sometimes the marriages that start with such a spiritual push end up being lackluster marriages and that the spiritual push was necessary to maintain marriages that could not support themselves otherwise. Similar to Oliver Cowdery, when things get bad you can look back to your “did not your heart burn within you” moment and that can bolster you up.

There was another where a man was confident that he was prompted to marry his wife, but then was later prompted to leave his wife and marry another woman (to become his second wife). His feeling was that God had intended him to marry both women sequentially just as this man had done.

I think the reason you can have such diversity of experiences on this topic is that the LDS church does not have an official position on this issue and frankly has several contradictory viewpoints being propagated and popularized at the same time. This allows for LDS individuals to find “personal truth” (in regards to this issue) principally from their own lives and the lives of the people closest to them. This in turn leads to different and even divergent “personal truths.”

This leads me to somewhat of a tangent. In some areas we have restricted the acceptable forms of spiritual experiences. I am thinking specifically of women anointing, blessing, and attending other women during childbirth and the other is speaking in tongues. I must imagine that there were some individuals that felt very strong spiritual experiences in both categories and doubtless felt that the spiritual feelings they were experiencing were confirmation that God approved of these practices. These practices are no longer acceptable today and so it would be very difficult for these experiences to be part of the typical LDS person’s spiritual background. Part of me is saddened that I (and other LDS persons) probably won’t have the opportunity to experience the spirit in this way.

My overall conclusion is that – I am thankful for the areas of our spiritual life (like finding a companion) where there is room for experimentation and individuality. I am also discovering new pockets of wiggle room within the assumed Mormon blanket of uniformity almost daily.

not sure who it was here … but someone at staylds.com shared an experience where they heard the still small voice (the Lord) say he works in other churches too. She was prompted to attend a meeting at another denomination and she attended and was enlightened…i remember listening to a podcast at MormonStories.org about a woman in the “Community of Christ” church (formerly the RLDS church). She shared how she felt the Holy Spirit tell her she would be called (to the priesthood – sorry, forgot the calling). And women in the priesthood in that faith was fairly new so she was stunned by her revelation.

i also remember one story given by a female country singer who knew she was lesbian ever since grade 4 and she was always close to God. She felt God was accepting of her in spite of her lesbian inclinations…The list of those outside the lds faith who have spiritual experiences are as numerous as the sand grains upon a beach – but what is interesting about the ones above are that they seem contrary to lds culture.

Is God lying to them or are they just deceived ? I think God did speak to them.

I think it was bridget_night that said she was specifically prompted to attend other churches and I don’t see why not. My take on this is that assuming God exists (which I do) it looks like he is perfectly content to let people believe whatever they want to. If it was really all that important for everyone to believe the same exact thing then it seems like God could have easily cleared up more of the confusion we see with a few revelations to the right people at the right times. I’m not going to blame Muslims too much for believing what they do even though I don’t because for for many of them it looks like that’s all they’ve ever known and heard about and they are surrounded by it on all sides so it’s not like it would really be that easy for many of them to just believe something else instead.