Temple marriage vs. marriage in general

I’m pretty sure we really don’t know what the next life will be like. But we try to frame it in ways that help us conceptualize it and make some sense of it from our earthly perspective, because we like to give ourselves hopes and dreams. That is the definition of heaven…a place or condition of the upmost happiness.

For the same reasons we want marriage to be commitment and exclusive intimacy with a partner to create special relationships and experiences in this life, temple marriages provide that hope and dream it can last forever. Its a nice story. I don’t know why a loving Father in Heaven would deny that to any of His children worthy and desiring of it, but that is for Him to judge.

For me, it is just a symbol of a beautiful, eternal commitment worth celebrating and I hope my kids aim for that ideal. If they choose not to, I don’t expect to treat them any different or view their situation as doomed, but hope they find their own symbols and values to help pave a way for a happy life. More important than any ordinance in the gospel, to me, is the person’s heart and the characteristics they are developing to become “god-like”. I think ordinances can help us (like temple ordinances), but they are just earthly tools to help us put meaning on things. You can choose what meaning fits your experience best.

I have multiple viewpoints on this issue, ranging from the SMA “God will fix it all in the end” to sometimes wondering if the emphasis on plural marriage, temple marriage, having a lot of kids, getting married young, etcetera, is more for the growth of the Church than having any permanent blessings after this life. It also reduces financial strain that comes from the precarious situation single parenting places on adults (again, many are successful, but many also struggle with only one income and having the main responsibility of raising children, particularly if they have sole custody).

The philosophy of eternal marriage opens a HOST of operational problems like the one you describe above Jamison, however, if people believe in the whole concept, it certainly does provide a number of benefits and conveniences to the organization as a whole. I believe the organizational conveniences and benefits often eclipse the perspective of the individual.

However, I leave myself open to the possiblity that traditional viewpoints about sealing power existing here on earth may well be valid. But the more practical, less idealistic view I present in the first two paragraphs also has meaning to me lately.

Many people in the Church have come to a point of view about the temple that is seriously flawed in my opinion. It is a common and generally accepted, literal understanding of the temple though. That flawed understanding is that WE on earth are pulling the levers and pushing the buttons to control the heavens. I am pretty sure if the temple has any basis in reality that it is the other way around. I have a sneaking suspicion that GOD is in charge and running the show, not some bureaucrats in the Church records office or some volunteer temple workers in a temple. God is pushing the levers and buttons.

Just because there isn’t a marriage license in a government records office somewhere (whether they never married or the record is lost) is NOT going to prevent a couple from being sealed for the eternities if that is what they want. I know we might not find them right now on earth, or know to seal them. I am pretty sure God can do what God wants without worrying about the paperwork though. The most fundamental message of our post-life cosmology and work for the dead is the clear idea that everyone wins! Everyone gets to figure out what they want, with a full and complete understanding, free from any negative compulsion. THAT’S THE MESSAGE! Unfortunately, the most “believing,” proud and dedicated members forget the message and get lost in the nitty gritty of the bureaucracy.

The temple sealing has to be a form of commitment ceremony like an application to proceed to the starting gate for the eternal marriage race, not the fulfillment or end of the race. How can I say this? Half of temple marriages end in divorce. They fail. So it most not really be a magic spell that seals the deal once and for all!

It sucks. People move on and try better the next time. Life is like that.

People sealed to multiple people? Yeah, I don’t think that’s an eternal prison sentence if one of those people doesn’t really want to be together. It doesn’t work that way. The sealing ceremony doesn’t seal anything (IMO). It provides the hope for something LIKE that if people want to go that route.

Being married to a great spouse you love and want to live with forever OUTSIDE the temple > being married to a spouse you can’t stand INSIDE the temple (officially “sealed”). I say we focus on trying to have a good marriage here in this life first. ‘Cause if that ain’t happening, sealing “red tape” doesn’t really matter one way or another.

now I am only sealed to some of my children. I kept bringing this up to our bishop, but he just said “if you live right, god will take care of it”.

I know what you mean Brown. In my situation my daughter Emory was stillborn 3 days before she was due to be delivered. If she had taken a breath outside of the womb she would have received a birth certificate and could be sealed to us. Come to find out further, the church hasn’t taken a position on whether or not my daughter was “a living soul.” I am aware of various unintended consequences that taking such a position might trigger in areas such as birth control, abortions, miscarriages, and even stem cell research – but it would still be nice to have my daughter recognized and listed as being sealed to us.

I can just assume that she counted as a living soul and assume that she was born in the covenant and assume that we will be able to raise her in the millennium. But if all that is true, what is the significance of earthly records at all. Is my daughter forced to sit in limbo until the church sees fit to add her name to a piece of paper (or computer database)? I think not.

I determined through faith that Emory would be with us in the eternities and I shared this in FT meeting. I believe many took it as an affirmation of the LDS faith. Later when my wife told some RS sisters that I believe our daughter would not be separated from us regardless of what denominational church we attend, she received a mixture of sympathy and condescension. What these ladies cannot realize is that I had to look beyond the limits of the LDS proclaimed scope of authority for this assurance – and what I found there remains independent of any earthly jurisdiction.

“No man is an island” is a truism, imo – and it’s really easy to forget that foundational principle when one moves past the general needs of the continent. Settling on the island to get away from the land-locked is not a good tactic – so we learn to compromise and cooperate and sacrifice . . . and, in so doing, grow and change and become.

I think I get what you are saying here, that we should have compassion on our former selves and upon others who still find their fulfillment in the “old” ways, that we should avoid burning bridges, that we should recognize that we have not evolved past the point of having needs – just that our situation dictated that we fulfill our needs in slightly different ways. So we surround ourselves with people and learn to love them for who they are and not for how similarly they see the world. Is that it? Please elaborate.

I didn’t get a chance to read all the replies ( trying to take care of a baby) but I wanted to share how I feel.

In all honesty I don’t see the point of the temple. Sure it’s a great symbol for the idea of being together in heaven but I just don’t think of it like others do. There’s no way we can get the work done for everyone and so people say God will take care of it. Well then why do any of it? I don’t think God cares if we got sealed or if we helped do baptisms for the dead. I think he cares that we are honest and caring people who try to do the best we can.

The funny thing is I just renewed my Temple Recommend because I don’t want anyone to know this for fear of hurting my family and losing friends. I go through a lot of the church’s requirements not really believing in them because I like the emphasis on family and good morals.

We have three examples listed so far: 1) a couple that never legally marries, 2) a daughter from a previous relationship that is left out of a subsequent sealing of the new “blended” family, and 3) a stillborn child that doesn’t qualify for sealing without a birth certificate.

I say we focus on trying to have a good [relationship] here in this life first. ‘Cause if that ain’t happening, sealing “red tape” doesn’t really matter one way or another.

The real sealing power lies within our hearts!

It would seem that in all three scenarios the lack of a temple sealing is not a barrier to becoming an eternal family (or if it is a barrier it is one that can be removed and “rubber stamped” by our Heavenly Father at some point in the future). This is recognized in the general Mormon understanding of “God will sort it out.”

The temple ceremony provides an ideal that is very needed in an individualistic and segregated world. The sealing ceremony makes the ideal real and attainable for many many people, providing hope and something to hold onto in difficult times.

So, it’s really important for those who understand that others can become one eternally even without “being sealed” in mortality not jettison the ceremony that actually articulates that ideal and makes it “physical” in a very real way. The concept needs to be preached and “embodied” not just believed – or it eventually becomes lost to many people who need a visual, physical representation to keep it real.

For me personally, it was very distressing not to have an assurance of continued family relationships with my stillborn daughter contrary to what I had expected. But, I must credit the ideal of the eternal family concept that undergirded much of my formative internal landscape and has helped me to prize and honor these relationships. I have “wrestled” with my Heavenly Father and I have received an assurance that is “beyond the limits of the LDS proclaimed scope of authority” and is therefore independent of said authority. Without the concept that is embodied in the temple sealing ceremony, I may not have felt to pursue this eternal spiritual connection with my daughter. The temple was the clue that led me to ask the question.

LDS apologist Blake T. Ostler said the following:

Every person has a purpose in human life to learn from experiences given wherever they are in their progression. It must be a part of our faith that the people who are born in the deepest jungles in Africa, who will never hear the Gospel during this life, have as much purpose in their life to learn from their life experiences as we do; and that they will gain, thereby, an increase in light by so doing…God will adapt his message to any culture, and any means that He can, to increase the light of a person (see Alma 29:

Maybe the temple ceremony is God’s adaptation of his message to our particular (Mormon) culture. Just because the method is not the message and just because there may be other and equally valid methods that also direct to enlightenment in the message, These things do not devalue or invalidate the method of priesthood sealings.

There’s no way we can get the work done for everyone and so people say God will take care of it. Well then why do any of it? I don’t think God cares if we got sealed or if we helped do baptisms for the dead. I think he cares that we are honest and caring people who try to do the best we can.

Hi “doubting mom” and welcome (it can be quite a challenge caring for a baby – I wish you well)

I understand your feelings and I have had these same thoughts myself.

When you say that God cares about us trying “to do the best we can,” does that include trying to do the best we can in regards to temple work? Even if temple work is not something that God expects from us as individuals, could performing temple work form part of trying “to do the best [they] can” for some individuals?