Fast & Testimony Meeting

It seems like Fast & Testimony meeting has been a hot topic lately here. I’d love to continue the discussion here.

I think I said my piece on the other thread. But I feel it is worth repeating (imagine that) and it may be easier for people to find under such a clearly marked thread, so here I go…

“I remember talking with a member of the stake presidency after priesthood one Sunday. He had made the statement that, “The church is perfect but the people aren’t.” I was asking him what he meant by “perfect.” His first definition was that the organization was perfect with all the offices of the priesthood. I asked him how that could be since we no longer have a Presiding Church Patriarch? Was the organization perfect before or after this office in the priesthood was phased out? This went on for a while. At several junctures he asked about my testimony and I reassured him that this conversation was purely academic about the definition of the word “perfect” and not the seed of apostasy. Finally, he suggested that the church is perfect in that it is divine (or originated with God). I personally like that answer. But if “perfect” means “of divine origin” then the people are perfect too! Are we not all children of God? Each one of us a “god in embryo” possessing the divine spark within us? We would then need to change the phrase to “The church is perfect and the people are too!”

Well, I felt that I had made a very compelling argument for why the word “perfect” was completely inappropriate in this context. He just shrugged his shoulders and told me that the way of things were quite clear to his simple mind.

It was then that I had an epiphany. When he said the church was perfect, what he meant was that he really likes the church. He could not be dissuaded from saying the church is perfect because that has been a socially acceptable and appropriate of saying what he feels (i.e. the church is good, the church is of God, the church is meaningful in my life)

I read somewhere that when we ask how someone’s day is going we are not really wanting an explanation, but we are expressing a level of connectedness with that person. Even though our words taken literally are not what is meant, the level of connectedness and fellowship that is solidified in part by asking this question is still worthwhile.

This all goes back to the “I know” statements from F/T meetings. We say “I know” but that is not really what is meant. The testimony bearing is a form of ritual that helps the bearer feel connected to God and to the rest of the congregation. The person gets up, shares some personal experiences, says essentially the church is good, the church is of God, the church is meaningful in my life and I AM ONE OF YOU.

This for me has made it easier for me to tolerate the statements and even use them myself. After all, this is my tribe – what’s the harm of speaking the language?

Some sources that have been helpful to me in considering this can be found in an article I quote from here…

“TESTIMONY

For Mormons, the first Sunday of the month usually includes a testimony and fast meeting. The money that would have been spent on food is given to the church, usually above the tithe. Individuals also give oral testimony in the gathered community. Of course, this is hardly a unique LDS practice; in my experience and according to credible witnesses, this testimony practice is much like that found in traditional Christianity. One can usually predict who will give testimony and what the content is likely to be. Much of the testimony takes on a rhetorical shape and purpose that functions in a ritual manner. Nonetheless, the young get to hear their parents and grandparents speak of their faith; the old hear the old story told in new and young voices; they all turn their hearts to one another and are active participants in the shaping of their witness and its interpretation. This contrasts with most typical Protestant services where only the paid professionals speak and interpret the narrative of their life together. If we truly want our children to have faith and our faith to have children, we might want to provide for regular opportunities to learn how to speak about faith. While testimonial services have many drawbacks, they appear to continue to work for Mormons, supporting outcomes many other Christians desire.

This practice among Mormons, or its absence among many Christians in North America, leads me to wonder aloud how we believe that God makes God’s self known across the generations. Further, I realize that many congregations exhibit strong resistance to introducing this practice, because they do not want to listen to the same old, tired, worn-out testimonies or listen to ignorant and inarticulate expressions of the faith22 or be expected to make their own testimony against their will.23 Some of the emotional energy in this resistance reveals class consciousness, because such behavior often is identified with the peasant- and working-class religious traditions. The strongest emotions of those driving this resistance come from outright fear that they will be shamed. The power of shame in our congregations reveals a working theology, a sense that who we are and our limited or modest witness to faith is somehow shameful.”

I found his observations thought provoking and the footnotes were interesting as well.

“22Of course, these testimonies are likely to reveal substantial ignorance, confusion, and even outright false

teaching. Can one imagine a better way for the local pastor, teacher, or bishop to gain insight into the faith life of the

congregation on a regular basis than such candid testimony?

23Often, I find this fear of the will being coerced into action out of the same lips that regularly condemn the

practice of testimony as individualistic. They seem oblivious to their own individualism.”

Mr. Keifert is looking at LDS practices and theological elements that could be applied to Lutheranism to grow the church and help capture the next generation (the average age of many congregations is fast trending upwards). The main points of his observations on testimony meetings are worth repeating:

Nonetheless, the young get to hear their parents and grandparents speak of their faith; the old hear the old story told in new and young voices; they all turn their hearts to one another and are active participants in the shaping of their witness and its interpretation.

We are active participants. The arrogant and proud, the uninformed, the parrots, the old and the young, the humble, the wise and inspired are all co-participants and co-shapers.

If we truly want our children to have faith and our faith to have children, we might want to provide for regular opportunities to learn how to speak about faith….[without such a practice I]…wonder aloud how we believe that God makes God’s self known across the generations.

As annoying and possibly inappropriate as having young children participate may be, this is precisely the combination of indoctrination participation/faith growth experimentation that begins the process of handing the faith baton off to the next generation.

Of course, these testimonies are likely to reveal substantial ignorance, confusion, and even outright false teaching. Can one imagine a better way for the local pastor, teacher, or bishop to gain insight into the faith life of the congregation on a regular basis than such candid testimony?

I’ve said before that much of what I understand from F&T meeting is “I am one of you,” expressions of solidarity and community affirmation. Yet the most intriguing and even inspiring testimonies are the ones that present a journey dissimilar from my own. Testimony allows all of us to “gain insight into the faith life of the congregation”, the good –the bad – and the ugly.

I also found a Sunstone article titled “Belief, Metaphor, and Rhetoric : the Mormon Practice of Testimony Bearing” to provide an anthropological perspective. It can be found here…

https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/081-20-27.pdf

Anyway, all of this would be pretty meaningless if I hadn’t been able to find my center. Before I could learn to live with others, I had to first learn to live with myself.”

I have had multiple experiences where someone (usually an unexpected someone) stands to share thoughts from their personal experience that deeply resonate with me, and I benefit from it. I’ll be honest to say those are few, and too far in between many other thankimonies and ramblings that do nothing for me, but they still do happen, and I am grateful for the F&T meeting for that reason.

To me, the things that I like about this meeting format:

– They are not assigned or called on, all that stand do so voluntarily and sincerely. That makes it special to me.

– They are unifying to the group. This was brought up in the podcast Brian participated in, that it is a way to all agree, and when you know the person and their background, that context provides more meaning than the actual words being uttered audibly.

– There is typically a lot of emotion, and I feel the sincerity of the message people are sharing, even if the message itself sometimes eludes me, I respect the person sharing something dear to their hearts.

– The kids are cute, and I can usually see such confidence on the kids feeling they are doing something good, and the parents that are proud of them. I see lots of smiles, and it does invite a good family feeling to the meeting, instead of just adults talking and kids trying to be corralled for as long as possible with coloring books. Quite often one sibling motivates another or a parent to participate. That is a good example of family-work, in my opinion. However, like everything else, I enjoy it in moderation. Too many kids and it seems to lose its appeal, from my experience.

What I don’t enjoy:

– Long testimonies. Most messages can be conveyed in a couple minutes, and would be more effective if more were that way.

– Usually to address nervousness, humor is attempted to break the ice. Its not always effective. 🙄

I have no problem with others claiming to know whatever they want, and sharing testimonies. The testimony bearer does not require I agree with them or that I accept their grammar or definitions of words. It is their testimony, and they can claim what they want. Roy said it well.

This all goes back to the “I know” statements from F/T meetings. We say “I know” but that is not really what is meant. The testimony bearing is a form of ritual that helps the bearer feel connected to God and to the rest of the congregation. The person gets up, shares some personal experiences, says essentially the church is good, the church is of God, the church is meaningful in my life and I AM ONE OF YOU.

When I was younger, I really did think I “knew”. Then I became a bit more wise to realize how difficult “knowing” is. I’m glad others allowed me the space to grow through that process, rather than just shooting me down for claiming stuff in my youth by correcting me of things I didn’t have any awareness of. I figured it out for myself.

Here is something I’m fascinated with:

What motivates people to want to stand. Everyone says they hate giving talks in church and reference how nervous they are…yet one after another, people continue to fill mic-time. What’s the main motivation for adults to do this?

Recently in Priesthood we talked about pure testimony. I felt that the clearest form of “pure testimony” is that of revelation directed directly to you and relatively ungarbled by the inexactness of the communication process. But if that is to be believed, how can a testimony meeting help facilitate in the minds of the listeners these pure testimony or revelatory experiences. One brother was kind enough to lend me some reading material on the subject and this summary is what I came up with:

“Every encouragement should be given to the bearing of brief, heartfelt testimonies and the relating of faith promoting experiences. Preachments; travelogues; long, drawn-out narratives of experiences; and routine, repetitious statements should be discouraged.” (General Handbook of Instructions, # 21, P. 23)

“When guided by the Holy Ghost, we will refrain from sharing lengthy narratives, unloading personal challenges, giving preachments, making repetitious statements” (Carl B. Cook AA Seventy)

A) Avoid repetition – “A child can also learn to say what is in his heart rather than use routine expressions which lose meaning through repetition” “testimonies are not a recitation of words but an opportunity to express sincere feelings related to the truths of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.” There seems to be some contradiction here because numerous talks refer to “basic truths we need to constantly teach one another and share with those not of our faith” – The big 4: God our Father, Jesus our Savior, Joseph the Restorer, and BOM the proof. If these statements that are included in almost every testimony are exempt the “repetitious statements” clause, what repetitious statements are left?

Do not share experiences that are not faith promoting or that do not relate specifically to the gospel principle you are testifying about. – “A youth can understand the difference between a faith-promoting experience and what “really went on” at camp.” Testimony is “Not an experience, although experiences may illustrate belief and conviction.”

C) Persons should not be pressured into bearing their testimonies. – “they should bear testimony because the Holy Ghost prompts them to say what they know to be true.” Allow “the Holy Spirit to prompt family members to bear testimony, rather than directly or indirectly pressuring them to do so” “That which comes from above is sacred, and must be spoken with care, and by constraint of the Spirit” (D & C 63:64)

D) Keep it short “Generally speaking a testimony is short, precise, and concise” “Bishoprics are encouraged to help all people learn to express brief, heartfelt testimony of the Savior, His teachings, and the Restoration.”

E) Talk about what you know in the context of the Gospel– “to make a solemn declaration of truth based on personal knowledge or belief” (Guide to the Scriptures, “Testify” p. 241) “Too few are able to say with humble but sincere clarity, I know.”” “Because a testimony is personal , testimony often begins with the pronoun “I”….A testimony can be identified by use of powerful verbs such as –Know, testify, believe, certify, declare, affirm, bear witness, bear record.” Testimony is “Not a long explanation of how you know but rather what you know.”

I have to admit that if all these suggestions were followed the testimonies presented would be more effective. I do not think things will change in the testimony department because the art of bearing your testimony is primarily a learned experience. Intermittent reminders about what is and isn’t appropriate for testimonies will not be effective as long as the testimony meetings themselves continue to contain much of what is being gently discouraged.