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  • #206105
    Anonymous
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    Most are aware of the angst-causing behavior of our Stake Presidency a couple years ago that threw me into my current spiral of unconventional activity in the Church. See below the asterisks at the bottom if you’re not aware…

    I am now callingless (by choice), but was asked to help out in Cubs over the summer. I’m actually enjoying myself a bit — it misses all the alligators of callings. I was asked to do it as an assignment, not as a calling. It’s casual, and also benefits my son. It’s fun and doesn’t involve tired, worn out programs or scripted service.

    I wonder if I have stumbled on something here. If I am asked to take on a calling, could I not ask to do it on an assignment basis for a while if it is small and at the ward level — just to see how it goes? This liberates me from being under the uncaring tutelage of Ward leaders who leave you in callings for THEIR convenience when it’s better to get the person out of the calling and on to the next one. For example, if they want me to be a den leader, then why don’t I offer just to do the job as an involved parent? Same as an assistant Den leader? Then, if I find it is something I don’t want anymore, I can just give notice.

    Also, I can suggest — just go and release the person currently in the position and I’ll fill in until a replacement is found. This also liberates the outgoing person so they don’t have to stay with their name on the calling forever…

    Now, I don’t want to leave the impression that I’m lacking commitment to my callings or anything — I’ve served for a long time in many long-term, even high profile positions in the Church that involve a lot of work. But right now, I’m sensitive to the way ward and stake leaders often release you at THEIR convenience, without any consideration for your own invidual needs.

    So, this idea of serving on a fill-in basis indefinitely, without a formal call or even committed end-date seems like an innovative way of maintaining some insulation from these ego-centric tendencies I’ve seen in leaders. I could see myself doing it in a Sunday School capacity for a while, even as a substitute teacher. When they ask to call me, I can say “I can do it as a substitute teacher for the forseeable future until something changes.” Same with a cub or scouts calling, which I think may be looming on the horizon.

    Just curious what you think of this…I can’t really see it working for a Stake Calling, but I can see it working in a Ward where the leadership is more desperate….

    ********

    Basically, I was suffering from burnout, depression, and angst from doing too much for too long (three years). I asked for a release and they ignored the request — they handshaked me at two months after my request, and then formally released me two months after that, with no communication about what was happening in between. I stopped functioning at two months which was hard for me to do, as I take callings seriously. And it disturbed me that I had to do that….Our SP was also very nasty and obviously ticked at my request by their interpersonal behavior around that time.

    #245442
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Silent Dawning, I appreciate your take on callings versus assignments. Because of my upbringing in the church I had always done 110% in things. I also saw the pain and anger it created between my parents. Once, in my twenties I was called as a ward mission leader. I had always enjoyed the spunky Elders that seemed to have a true desire to do the Lord’s work and it brought me back to my mission days. After going out with the Elders almost weekly, I was called as the WML (Ward Mission Leader). As the WML I was doing everything by the book, took new converts to institute classes to get more from the scriptures, did extra leadership meetings, I even cancelled a job interview for a service project for a part member family (thinking that the Lord would bless me beyond what that job could have provided me). Boy was I wrong. I ended up being released a month after this and my new Bishop’s reasoning was, “you need to move on with life and start a career so you can start having a family (kids).” I was shocked I thought I was supposed to put in two years in this calling, and I had only put in 5 months. I then realized that I turned down an awesome job interview in a museum that would have been great for me as a foundation for a career in Museum science.

    The part member family was essentially just given handouts and didn’t even care about the service I provided. I felt cheap and slapped in the face. In some ways I actually felt demoted since I was a member of the inner circle of the ward council, now I wouldn’t be able to attend and just felt dejected. I was very confused–it took me three more years to even get a career started after that point. I had job interview after job interview with no avail. Now, I just do what I’m told and treat my calling like an assignment like you say. I realize now, that since our service is voluntary in the church we only need to do what is necessary. We aren’t paid and it really doesn’t matter if I get released/fired from a calling or quit since there will always be another calling, but it does matter if I lose my job and can’t provide for my family.

    #245443
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Jamison — I’ve been there. I did something like that when I was a newly called YM President. For me, it was neglecting my wife for the calling. That caused some problems, although no one in the Church knew about it. Sounds like the Bishop thought you were still living life as a missionary and the job interview sacrifice you made tipped the scales toward releasing you.

    Also, I’ve stopped feeling anst when people don’t respond to my service efforts. I have been there — WANTING to see success like you do as a missionary, but I don’t believe plums fall out of the sky anymore as a direct result of my actions necessarily being blessed. I feel one has to give willingnly with no expectation of a specific result. It certainly is angst-quelling to think that way. Of course, I’m a lot more selective about the level of service I will give anymore….

    However, my question is whether you think the Ward leadership would go for a proposal like this — taking a calling on an assignment basis indefinitely rather than as a formal calling.

    Remember, they think I’m kind of on the fringe now, know that I was ticked about what happened a while ago, and need reliable people to serve. On the other hand, there is a certain arrogance in leadership in general that if people aren’t willing to serve on the terms of hte organization, then they don’t want the person. I’ve seen that. Some might say that it’s not procedure, and that I will not be effective since I don’t have the setting apart blessing. People might say “That’s not how it works, if he wants to serve on his own terms, then he can eat husks (prodigal son reference) for a while longer until he comes around”.

    Just wondering what you all think how the leadership might react to something like this.

    #245444
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Quote:


    I am now callingless (by choice), but was asked to help out in Cubs over the summer. I’m actually enjoying myself a bit — it misses all the alligators of callings. I was asked to do it as an assignment, not as a calling. It’s casual, and also benefits my son. It’s fun and doesn’t involve tired, worn out programs or scripted service.

    Sounds fun, but aren’t there quite complex background checks for working with children these days?

    #245445
    Anonymous
    Guest

    SilentDawning wrote:

    If I am asked to take on a calling, could I not ask to do it on an assignment basis for a while if it is small and at the ward level — just to see how it goes? …

    Then, if I find it is something I don’t want anymore, I can just give notice.


    I’m not sure I see the difference between a calling and what you are proposing as an assignment.

    It looks to me like it is just that for an assignment, you are not called, sustained, and set apart by ward leaders. That’s just a formality, isn’t it?

    Can you clarify what you think the main differences are?

    #245446
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Heber13 wrote:

    SilentDawning wrote:

    If I am asked to take on a calling, could I not ask to do it on an assignment basis for a while if it is small and at the ward level — just to see how it goes? …

    Then, if I find it is something I don’t want anymore, I can just give notice.


    I’m not sure I see the difference between a calling and what you are proposing as an assignment.

    It looks to me like it is just that for an assignment, you are not called, sustained, and set apart by ward leaders. That’s just a formality, isn’t it?

    Can you clarify what you think the main differences are?

    Many. One, when it’s time to move on, you just tell the leader that you are giving a couple week’s or one month’s notice, after which time you will be unavailable. A month passes, and you stop functioning with integrity. No waiting for the Bishopric to move on the release on their own sweet time, no people expecting you to hold down the calling after you’ve had enough because you haven’t been released and your name appears all over the website — you are in control of your time, just as a volunteer should be.

    Two, If someone calls you about doing something in the capacity of the calling, you just tell them you are not doing it anymore and pass it on to the person you report to. No more feeling like a half-miler because your name is all over the calling and your heart isn’t in it. Three….and if the Bishopric decides to take 6 months to find a replacement, it’s THEIR problem, not yours as you are no longer attached to the calling — you never were — it was only an assignment that you have left.

    After my last experience, it is MUCH better way to leave a calling rather than waiting for a formal release.

    There are noises about calling me to a leader in one of the scouting organizations and I think I will just decline but say I’m more than willing to act in the function as a supportive parent, taking on all the responsibilities for as long as is practical for me.

    By the way, I no longer buy into the spiritual blessings that supposedly flow from being set apart, so an assignment is enough to give me a sense of spirituality, along with a personal prayer of faith.

    #245447
    Anonymous
    Guest

    in one ward i attended, the bishop (through someone else asking me) wanted me to attend meetings to fill in for the ward mission leader if he couldn’t make it, as well as to conduct baptismal services in the ward. I believe I said I had to think about it and later decided I couldn’t do it because of family obligations. You would have thought I had slapped the bishop in the face because of how he treated me afterwards.

    there is the cultural expectation in the mormon church to not say no to a calling. that’s all good and fine but I’ve come to a place where anything to do with church has to be a “free-will” offering. if that was part of the mormon church’s culture then that would be great but it’s not.

    Mike

    #245448
    Anonymous
    Guest

    SamBee wrote:

    Quote:


    I am now callingless (by choice), but was asked to help out in Cubs over the summer. I’m actually enjoying myself a bit — it misses all the alligators of callings. I was asked to do it as an assignment, not as a calling. It’s casual, and also benefits my son. It’s fun and doesn’t involve tired, worn out programs or scripted service.

    Sounds fun, but aren’t there quite complex background checks for working with children these days?

    Not sure — but I’ve undergone formal background checks before, without having been formerly called or installed. Such as when I underwent a check to be a volunteer on a field trip for my son’s school. I don’t see any relationship between the need for a background check and the need for a formal call….

    BeLikeChrist wrote:

    in one ward i attended, the bishop (through someone else asking me) wanted me to attend meetings to fill in for the ward mission leader if he couldn’t make it, as well as to conduct baptismal services in the ward. I believe I said I had to think about it and later decided I couldn’t do it because of family obligations. You would have thought I had slapped the bishop in the face because of how he treated me afterwards.

    there is the cultural expectation in the mormon church to not say no to a calling. that’s all good and fine but I’ve come to a place where anything to do with church has to be a “free-will” offering. if that was part of the mormon church’s culture then that would be great but it’s not.

    Mike

    I already have the stigma based on asking to be released from a calling sometime ago, and also telling the BP I don’t WANT a calling right now. So, I don’t really care about what they think in terms of stigma. I agree wholeheartedly about the free-will offering. Too much duty-driven offering leads to burnout.

    Personally, I’m starting to like the assignment-basis-only approach as it makes service a free will offering. Also, there is movement in the new CHI of making things more of an assignment than a calling — Social Activities organizers, and the Single Adult Leaders, said one brother I know. These people aren’t called from what I understand (I’m sure about the Social Activities organizers, but not so sure about the Single Adult Leaders).

    And by the way, I think the approach of callings and releases has its flaws anyway — like trying to get the benefits of an employee-employer relationship even thought its a volunteer “contract”. And in some ways its worse because as an employee you can always quit if if you want. In not accepting money for your labor anymore, you have a right to leave the position without reason or excuse. With a Church calling, you are stuck there until your will is consistent with the will of the leaders in the area you are in.

    #245449
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Its always a bummer to me to hear how local leaders handle some of these things. From my experience, the training provided at the Stake level is that leaders MUST respect the individual and their time and pressures in life and family circumstances. It is not taught in the CHI to pressure people to stay in callings or feel trapped that they get hooked and have no out.

    If the local leaders are making people feel obligated or pressured to take and keep callings to make their life easier in staffing the ward or branch, then that leader has not learned their calling yet, IMO. That is sad. (Maybe you can help them with that???)

    I know when I was in the bishopric and extended callings, I never felt like people better say Yes or else I will shun them. I asked. I listened. If they hesitated, I tried to use the missionary path of resolve concerns and with faith commit them to try. Perhaps in my attempts to help, I made people feel pressured, but I don’t think so. I think I always did it out of love with the faith that callings really would help them, even if it was hard for people to see. But clearly in the end, their concerns were respected. I was fine with going back to the bishop saying we needed another name for that calling, and often gave the bishop new information about the concerns of that individual that we could think of ways to help alleviate the pressures with ward support and service, never add to them.

    Unfortunately, local leadership doesn’t always handle things right. But that doesn’t have to be your problem. That is theirs. Set your boundaries, determine what you need from the partnership and what you can give to it, and let it play out from there.

    The other idea I’ve had recently, is that if I can’t find a good partnership in my ward, I’m open to looking at neighboring wards and if I can attend there. I just keep telling myself that our leaders in Salt Lake say the church is there to support the individual and the family. Gone are the days Saints are expected to give all as a sacrifice and leave our families for church service. If they are gonna say that over the pulpit, I hold them to it on the local level.

    If I have clearly stated my situation to my leader, and drawn the boundary of what I can and cannot do right now, then I have no issue not showing up for a calling or just stop doing a calling they have not yet released me for. That is their problem on how to handle it or the time it takes to backfill me, if I’ve given them proper communication of my situation so I’m not completely irresponsible. If they treat me different or look down on me for it…that is also their problem and just validates to me the partnership isn’t healthy and working for me. I cannot be consumed by fears of their acceptance. I must be honest with myself and my needs.

    To be 100% honest, my current ward has been super supportive of me and my situation. It helps me love them more when I feel they care enough to give me space rather than frantically trying to commit me to meet their needs. I guess I have a pretty good local leadership that supports me where I am right now. I’m sure it varies from unit to unit. Hang in there, SD. All the best.

    #245450
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Your approach, then, is not to distinguish between an assignment and a calling. Paraphrasing, whether you are formally released from a calling or stop doing an assignment is not significant. It is the Bishopric’s problem either way, and ultimately, what is best for the individual is what ultimately matters.

    I hope I have that right.

    For me, I agree with the paragraph, although I do feel there are stigmas attached to stopping one’s service without being formally realeased, even after a request has been given to do so.

    Also, I personally took a personality test and scored very strong in a factor called Reliability. People strong in this trait tend to take responsibiilties very seriously, and really struggle with their name attached to something, without giving it 100%. So, for people with this trait, staying in a calling, not yet formally released, and not functioning is extremely anst-producing. Very true in my case.

    So, that is why I would favor an assignment over a release.

    #245451
    Anonymous
    Guest

    SilentDawning wrote:

    whether you are formally released from a calling or stop doing an assignment is not significant.

    Yes, that is how I feel. I am not an irresponsible person…when I’m committed to doing something, I do it. But the partnership idea means I expect to give on the same terms I’m treated.

    If they have no problems taking 3 weeks from the time they extend a calling to me, until the time they announce it over the pulpit and then take 6 months to set me apart, and then are in no hurry to officially release me … then they are setting the tone that the official calling status is not really as important as getting the work done, serving, and being patient while the red tape takes time to cut through the formalities.

    Fine. If they set that tone, then I am being responsible to myself also to not put more value on those things then they do. Not in a vindictive way, just realistically. I just need to have that high level of integrity you display to give them proper notice, communicate openly and honestly, explain the line I draw in the sand and ask for their support in helping me in my situation…and after doing all those things with integrity, patience, and love… then their reaction is out of my control.

    The stigmas that go along with it are potentially going to be there, whether or not I bend to their wishes or not.

    I’m just sharing my experience. I understand some things are internally important to you, and I respect that. Just be open to asking yourself what you really can do, and what things you are choosing to do or choosing to place restrictions on yourself for your own reasons. Truth sets us free from bondage in life.

    I’m not saying I’m right and you’re wrong…I just think there are different approaches, and you have to be comfortable with yours. I’m sorry there is angst there for you. I really feel the church should be a church of love, not of fear. It just isn’t always the way it should be, huh? :(

    #245452
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Heber13 wrote:

    If they have no problems taking 3 weeks from the time they extend a calling to me, until the time they announce it over the pulpit and then take 6 months to set me apart, and then are in no hurry to officially release me … then they are setting the tone that the official calling status is not really as important as getting the work done, serving, and being patient while the red tape takes time to cut through the formalities.

    Exactly! I thought the same over and over again. Our HC would say “Big decisions are made in the board rooms of corporate America, but the decisions made in this quorum leadership are more important”. I found that really hard to believe when they just let it all fall apart with no communication while they took their sweet time to let me out of it.

    [As an aside, I think the handbook should reconsider telling HC to say “The Stake President cares about you” as a matter of habit in their Sacrament meeting talks. That was also hard to swallow after my experience…]

    With my own mental set, I would need to be released before I felt I was free of any responsibility. The way you put the rest of your post, Heber13, helps me see the perspective that other members may be taking when they decide they aren’t doing a calling anymore. It always baffled me how they could just not show up etcetera. Now I see their perspective; the release didn’t mean much — they were in control and after notifying the leadership, let it be their problem. They took the free time back and enjoyed it. Problem solved.

    #245453
    Anonymous
    Guest

    About the aside in your last comment, SD, I’m not aware of anything in the CHI that tells HC speakers to say that. I believe it is purely cultural – or the direct request of some Stake Presidents.

    I might be wrong about that, but I can’t recall that as either a directive or a suggestion in the CHI.

    I like the idea of assignments for many things rather than callings – from both sides (those being asked and those doing the asking). I think it’s a very good theoretical division between those things that really should involve revelation and those things that are fine to be done according to our best understanding and “simple inspiration”.

    #245454
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Regarding the “The Stake President cares about you” thing — I just scoured both handbooks and don’t see it there anymore. It wouldn’t surprise me if it was in the old handbook. I seem to remember reading it there when I had one back in my Bishopric days. But I hear it all the time — and I’ve heard it in California, Canada, and now here where I live. Standard fare. When I was on the High Council I remember saying it too but I can’t remember why:) If I was on the HC now, I’d shun that one with a 10 foot pole.

    I like your perspective on assignments. I may consider that next time they ask me to accept a calling. For certain callings it could work well — like front-line callings, teaching callings, cub callings, and maybe even secretarial or assistant secretary positions. For others it wouldn’t work at all.

    #245455
    Anonymous
    Guest

    When I served on the High Council, I was specifically told by our SPcy to start my talks with that, every time. They really wanted the stake members to hear it and feel it. It is like many other things in the church that some SPs like it and perpetuate it, but it is just a personal leadership thing.

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