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If Bro. Robinson’s first book “Believing Christ” could have been subtitled “The Promise,” I have chosen to personally subtitle his sequel book as “The Betrayal.” I have a visceral reaction to “Following Christ” because I believed the principles espoused in the former book. They became a lifeline to me in a difficult time. I wonder if, because “Believing Christ” was so popular among persons who were having a difficult time in the church – “Following Christ” was written as a reaction to this, a form of backpedaling or distancing the series from such individuals.
A major tenet of “Believing Christ” was that, despite your failings God will make up the difference by covenant as long as you don’t turn your back on him (I had viewed these back turners as individuals that make fully informed decisions to reject God and become Sons of Perdition).
In “Following Christ” Bro. Robinson details how surprisingly easy it is to find yourself in violation of the Gospel Covenant and to have all the promised blessings therein rescinded (or conversely how easy it is to keep the covenant…just swear 100% allegiance to the church in all things and do everything you are asked to do to the best of your ability). This is coupled with an overbearing emphasis that the LDS Church is the Kingdom and that our loyalty to Christ is synonymous with loyalty to the Church.
Quote:If we are truly in his church, then we are truly in his kingdom. *Of course, this assumes that one is in the Church by informed choice and not merely as a coincidence of birth or for reasons of “bad faith,” such as family, social, or economic reasons. P. 7 [We] now stand, conditionally, in the kingdom of God. *On the single condition of endurance. P. 12 [The question then,] Do I choose to endure? P. 19
Endure to mean “last,” “continue,” or “remain” P. 22 [to mean] Staying put in the Church; we don’t quit the Church and kingdom or lose our testimony because of life’s difficulties or temptations – we stay put. P. 23 …[to mean] loyalty and determination…no matter what, P. 24 [to mean] remaining faithful to our Christian covenants and to the covenant community, which is the Church. P. 25
Faith, after all, is spiritual knowledge – not a guess, not a hunch, not a hope, but knowledge. Most often it is knowledge unsupported by physical evidence or even challenged by the available evidence. P. 27 That is what Satan is; it’s what he does; it is his essence to lie and to accuse, and his lying accusations will often seem correct to most honest, objective observers. P. 115 If we are ever to detect and rise above the distortions of our fallen intellect, we need another yardstick – a correct one – to measure our reason by, and that yardstick is the revealed gospel of Jesus Christ. P. 54
Many people leave the Church or otherwise fail to endure to the end because they have become offended. P. 96 A truly converted member says, “I am a member of this church and my lot is cast with the apostles and prophets- no matter what. Above all other issues, loyalties, agendas, and commitments, THIS is where I stand; THIS is what I believe; THIS is whom I serve.” Then and only then can we experience the power and the blessings promised to the faithful. P. 28 (italics in the original)
Often those who cannot keep their commitments seek to justify themselves by separating loyalty to Christ from loyalty to his church, but that is impossible. P. 29 There are no side bets or private arrangements. Enduring in our covenants means enduring IN THE CHURCH….(italics in the original) No matter their intentions, they are deceived. By definition, if they have not lasted, they have failed to endure to the end. P.30 Those so deceived do not generally reject Christ; they just decide to interpret his will differently or to serve him in different ways or according to new standards and values, and their original commitments take a backseat to their new agenda. In essence, they change their spiritual compass headings. But the truth is that they couldn’t be trusted to hold their original course and keep their original commitments. They didn’t endure. P. 99
He goes on about the relationship between faith, atonement, and works in what I have summarized as: Christ saves us from our fallen state. Christ laid the foundation of salvation and gives us the necessary blueprints. Christ then invites us to build our own structure of exaltation to his specifications upon his completed foundation. Bro. Robinson then continues to identify persons who don’t make the cut.
Quote:If his countenance does not become, over time, more and more visible in me, if I do not begin to bear the fruits of my conversion, it becomes doubtful that I have really entered into the covenant in good faith or that I have not secretly changed my mind somewhere along the line P. 72 There are those who profess him but will not WORK for him, those who claim to be sons and daughters but refuse to do their chores. But these, according to scripture, are “liars.” (Italics in the original) P. 77
The wolves try to imitate the voice of the shepherd, but HIS sheep listen only to HIS voice and follow only HIM. (Italics in the original) P. 108 If the Church isn’t pursuing a particular path, there are only two possibilities: (1) the Church is wrong, or (2) the path is wrong. Take (2) to the bank. P. 109 [The Church is] not true IF, and it’s not true BUT, and it’s not true EXCEPT. It’s just TRUE! Moreover, the Church is not off course, it’s not going too slow, and it’s not going too fast. Its leaders are not asleep, and they don’t need any uninvited help from the passengers to steer the boat. THE CHURCH IS TRUE! Knowing this is what it means to have a testimony of the truth of the restored gospel, and those who maintain otherwise are the deceivers or the deceived who have lost their faith and changed their loyalty and their compass headings, who have divorced Christ for love of an idol, and who have not endured to the end. (Italics in the original) P 110 They will then [at the judgment seat] try to blame their letting go of the iron rod on bad information instead of on themselves for listening to alternate voices. But unfortunately, we will be held accountable for allowing ourselves to be deceived. P. 113
I could go on but I think you get the picture. His denunciation and rhetorical damnation of anyone who wavers in their commitment to the church is not just incidental to his main message, not restricted to any one section, but rather seems to me to be the entire purpose and intent behind this book. Under the banner of “Following Christ” he goes about cutting off all but those who swear 100% allegiance to the church in all things and do everything they are asked to do to the best of their ability.
In my post on the review of “Believing Christ,” I wrote the following:
Quote:Prior to reading “Believing Christ,” I had been struggling with the visualization of “enduring to the end” as a perpetual handcart journey. Where only if I pulled until I literally fell over dead would I measure up.
After my discovery that some of the book’s (Believing Christ’s) interpretations and emphasis could be considered “uncorrelated,” when compared to predominant LDS references – I wrote:
Quote:I was not so sure of myself to think that the church authorities quoted in these institute manuals and the editors of the bible dictionary were somehow in error while I was enlightened. Nor could I dismiss the differences as S. Robinson seems to dismiss those differences in his students’ understandings as being “a function of age and maturity” or being “soft in the middle.” Now I was back to my visualization of the perpetual handcart journey only now “grace” seemed to be that extra little shove to keep you going when every muscle is screaming at you to stop…until of course, you fall down dead in mid-step.
In his follow up work “Following Christ,” Bro. Robinson drew upon the same imagery that I had so much trouble with, comparing “endurance to the end” with the fortitude of the handcart migration. Unfortunately, he also comes to the same depressing conclusions.
Quote:As we think of the pioneers and their afflictions, we need to reconsider for a minute what it means to “endure” in circumstances like theirs. Although we naturally tend to think of the living, struggling saints moving victoriously into the Salt Lake Valley as having “endured” the hardships of the trek West, we must remember that for many of the faithful Saints “enduring to the end” simply meant dying on the way. The old, the young, the sick, the unlucky – they did not endure the hardships of the crossing. Their hardships killed them – by the scored and by the hundreds. Some barely made it out of Nauvoo before they died. Nevertheless, in the gospel sense [they] “endured to the end”
What about Emma or Lucy Mack or Oliver Cowdery? Is the grace and mercy of God not extended towards them? I think that it is! I am coming to know a Heavenly Father that never gives up on his children. He will continue to entreat them in personalized ways that reflect their circumstances and conditions inside or outside of the LDS church. I resonate with a form of eternal progression wherein all may grow and develop to the degree that they are willing to turn their face towards the source of light (even if for now they are only able to handle the reflected light of the moon). The salvation that inspires me is of being loved, being accepted. It is knowing that God sees through my exterior and my persona. He passes through to the fleshy, quivering, vulnerable parts and he loves me. He doesn’t love me because of how great/good/not totally screwed up that I am. He doesn’t love me because of my loyalties, allegiances, or my FICO credit rating score, but rather because of His great capacity and the relationship he has with me. I don’t see this relationship as a covenant relationship but rather as a father son relationship.
It is ok for me to accept, utilize, and build upon some of Bro. Robinsons ideas and concepts while passing on some others that aren’t as useful to me.
In contemplating this heaven where everyone progresses to their ultimate potential eventually, I also imagine some LDS persons (and persons of other faiths believing that certain sacrifices are necessary for salvation) being quite put off upon finding so many “less worthy” persons among heaven’s hosts. I also imagine Jesus as saying quite sternly, “It is I who paid the price for sins. I will determine who will receive the effects of my merciful atonement in its fullness and who will not. I have seen fit to allow you continued progression despite your shortcomings and that should be sufficient for you.” Then He softens some before adding, “Please don’t begrudge your brothers and sisters of that same mercy that I have extended to you.”
After all, Bro. Robinson deserves forgiveness just as much as I do (which is to say, not at all), but then isn’t that the entire point of mercy.
I read through this Roy, and I agree with your interpretations here. This idea of the Church NOT being the gospel, and that one DOES have a personal compass is central to staying in the Church for many of us. The whole reason I still feel connected to the gospel and the Church is that I’ve made this distinction! Now that I feel I can take a break from the onerous aspects of our service, I feel freedom and a degree of peace about my relationship with the Church, as well as a willingness to ramp up my commitment at some point in the future. This all or nothing approach apparently espoused by Robinson would have left me demoralized, and far less willing to stay integrated.
There was also a conference talk/video a while ago by Elder Poelman that has been circulated — he makes the point that the Church is separate from the Gospel. It was later edited and re-recorded to re-entwine the Church with the gospel, and you can find the differences in the wording online. I don’t care that it was been edited — the original recording/talk shows that even higher ranking General Authorities recognize that there is in fact a difference between the Gospel and the Church.
If I believed everything Stephen Robinson said, I’d have given up long ago.
Wow, thanks for the review. I seem to recall rather liking Believing Christ, and might have given this book a chance. Reading those excerpts convinces me that I’d be better off washing my cat. That kind of uncompromising rhetoric depresses me, and I’m sad to be reminded that there is a market for this kind of thing, despite what I’ve been trying to tell myself.
There are those who are attuned to grace alone, and there are those who are attuned to works alone. It’s harder to find a balance that works for you individually, when neither extreme works. It’s even harder to read one extreme and not reject it completely when the other extreme is what brings understanding and peace to your soul. Therefore, it’s harder to handle hearing the extremes if you are at one extreme personally.
That’s not pointed at ANYONE here; it’s just a generic statement. I think a huge part of Stage 4 is crashing headfirst into one extreme while still entrenched in the other extreme – and one of the most critical parts of moving to Stage 5 is realizing that it’s ok (and even greatly empowering and liberating and growth-producing) to work out a balance between the extremes that works for you individually. That effort also tends to mitigate the natural rejection and repulsion felt by those still stuck in one of the extremes.
Wow, Roy thanks for that review. I have both of those books and remembering reading them thoroughly many years ago. I also recall liking one more than the other. I loved the ‘parable’ of the divers story and degree of difficulty and where he talked about the atonement in reference to his wife that was so discouraged. Somehow I must have missed the parts you quoted because those would upset me as well. Rob Bell’s new book, “Love Wins” sounds more reasonable and merciful. So, like anything else we have to continue with the admonition of Paul to ‘prove all things and hold fast to that which is good.” Very disappointing 
I never read “Following Christ.” I really loved “Believing Christ” though. I was so excited to see someone with prominence writing about the Atonement in that way from within Mormonism.
I get Ray’s point, and agree — different strokes for different folks. I believe that is true. People are drawn to what they need spiritually, in the moment, just like people get cravings for food that have certain nutrients their body feels are lacking.
But still … I was so hopeful that Robinson was going to be a promoter of a more compassionate and hopeful view of the atonement. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is not the same as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The Kingdom of God, and the act of building it on the earth (the dream of paradise) is not the same as the Corporation of the President.
I’m not saying those things are mutually exclusive by any means. If I didn’t think I could find God, salvation and even exaltation sometimes through the LDS Church (as a tool in my toolbox), I wouldn’t be here at this site. I do believe those
cancross, but they are not the same thing. I am still smack dab in the middle of a crisis of faith, and I bought this book thinking it might help me improve my relationship with Christ. I too enjoyed “Believing Christ”, and at least found myself hoping that this approach might be true. Thanks for saving me from the damage I’m sure would have been done by my reading “Following Christ”. The last thing I need right now is more confirmation of Christ’s disappointment in me. TSW
SilentDawning wrote:There was also a conference talk/video a while ago by Elder Poelman that has been circulated — he makes the point that the Church is separate from the Gospel. It was later edited and re-recorded to re-entwine the Church with the gospel, and you can find the differences in the wording online.
Elder Poelman’s talk came to my mind as well. My conspiracy theory side makes me wonder if there wasn’t any pressure for Bro. Robinson to write his follow up book/clarification (he is after all an indirect Church employee as a BYU professor). But it could have also been Bro. Robinson himself that was horrified at how some on the fringes of church involvement were embracing the message of “Believing Christ” and felt the need to clarify. I remember reading a book called “The Case for Christ” where a former newspaper reporter sets about to collect evidence for Jesus as the Christ. Midway through the book there is this paragraph that basically says Mormons are non-Christian cultists that go to hell. Anyway, the paragraph was just inserted there and had no connection to the preceding or following paragraphs as if to say – What if any Mormons read my book and find it encouraging? I better insert this paragraph to let them know what I think of them.”
Old-Timer wrote:There are those who are attuned to grace alone, and there are those who are attuned to works alone.
By way of self-disclosure, I find my attunement on the grace side of the spectrum. Gasp! Say it isn’t so!
😮 😯 My attunement has migrated over the course of my life, mostly in small ways and then lastly in a big way. To be honest I’m somewhat confused as to where Bro. Robinson stands on the question. A great analogy from his former book was the marriage of the two checking accounts, one delinquent and overdrawn and the other flush with infinite cash. But applying this analogy to his later – Salvation depends upon Christ, Exaltation depends upon you- model is confusing. Does Christ rescue us from spiritual bankruptcy and then push us to make our own fortune? Does he expect to console his overstressed wife with “don’t worry so much about measuring up, at least you get a free ride to the telestial kingdom!”?But this isn’t really a major complaint. No one really knows what combination of works and grace is the magic ingredient, and there is enough support in scripture to make a case for various positions. What I found so maddening was the wholesale categorization of people into: never members, sincere and traditionally believing members, and former members/inactive members/non traditionally believing members/non believing but participating members – or in other words categorization into groups of: People with potential to receive grace, people who are in the covenant of grace, and people who have lost their chance. That was what kept me shaking my head and furiously writing in the margins.
bridget_night wrote:I loved the ‘parable’ of the divers story and degree of difficulty
I agree Bridget, this concept was great – but he only seemed to apply it to people that live difficult lives and yet remain “true” to the church.Quote:They will then [at the judgment seat] try to blame their letting go of the iron rod on bad information instead of on themselves for listening to alternate voices. But unfortunately, we will be held accountable for allowing ourselves to be deceived. After all, we have been explicitly forewarned: Satan will lie so cleverly, even the elect will be at risk.” We also have the teachings of the apostles and prophets. We have the counsel of other priesthood leaders. We have the scriptures. We have the gift of the Holy Ghost. We have personal prayer and personal revelation. We have been given all we need to avoid doctrinal deception, so if we are deceived in doctrine it is usually our own fault. On the other hand, those who take advantage of all these resources, and whose fingers can’t be pried off the iron rod, won’t be deceived: “Whoso
treasurethup my word, shall not be deceivedJST Matt. 1:37″ P. 113-4 (Italics in the original)
He seems unable to consider that there might be extenuating circumstances behind an individual’s less than perfect allegiance to the church.Brian Johnston wrote:Very disappointing
I never read “Following Christ.” I really loved “Believing Christ” though. I was so excited to see someone with prominence writing about the Atonement in that way from within Mormonism.
I get Ray’s point, and agree — different strokes for different folks. I believe that is true. People are drawn to what they need spiritually, in the moment, just like people get cravings for food that have certain nutrients their body feels are lacking.
But still … I was so hopeful that Robinson was going to be a promoter of a more compassionate and hopeful view of the atonement. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is not the same as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The Kingdom of God, and the act of building it on the earth (the dream of paradise) is not the same as the Corporation of the President.
I’m not saying those things are mutually exclusive by any means. If I didn’t think I could find God, salvation and even exaltation sometimes through the LDS Church (as a tool in my toolbox), I wouldn’t be here at this site. I do believe those
cancross, but they are not the same thing. I echo your sentiments. My disappointment spawned from my elevated expectations.
Thanks for the review Roy. Interestingly, just today I was looking for my copy of “Believing Christ” because my daughter and I were discussing the Atonement, and I have always been impressed by things in that book. I still have a lot of reading material to get through, so this “Following Christ” will likely not make my list. I believe a person can follow Christ by using the tools and teachings in the church to practice Christianity. However, I find most people in the church think it is the only way to follow Christ (church leaders included), when they haven’t really looked much outside of it. I’m open to other ideas.
I found nothing wrong with all the quotes Roy used quoting Stephen Robinson. What struck me as most interesting was the slant of his message as well as the responses by those who responded. Brian Johnston responded with, ” I was so hopeful that Robinson was going to be a promoter of a more compassionate and hopeful view of the atonement. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is not the same as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The Kingdom of God, and the act of building it on the earth (the dream of paradise) is not the same as the Corporation of the President.” My understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ is that Christ will not let his prophet lead his people astray. After all he can stop anyone’s heart from beating anytime. I feel it is risky to divide the gospel of Christ from the prophet and Christ’s church. Christ will account us doing his will if we follow the prophet. I do expect every member to be challenged on this very issue in the future. We will all have to give an account to God of where our heart is and on the stand we take on each issue we are confronted with. I claim to want to know the truth, my actions will prove if that is true or not, the Spirit will lead us if we let it, That is the real struggle. I for one can’t see how I could distinguish between the gospel of Christ, the Church and His prophet, to me they are all for one, in the Lord. I’m glad that such an outlook works for you, jeriboy – and I mean that sincerely. I also appreciate how respectful your comment is – that it explains how you see this without attacking or belittling how others see it. Thank you. That view just doesn’t work for everyone – and, for most of us here, distinguishing between the Church and the Gospel is really important.
jeriboy wrote:I for one can’t see how I could distinguish between the gospel of Christ, the Church and His prophet, to me they are all for one, in the Lord.
As Ray said, it’s good that works for you. It doesn’t work at all for me, and I see real differences in the church and the Gospel (I often say the Gospel is much simpler and much bigger than the church). Were I unable to separate the two – and I acknowledge they are tightly interwoven and some parts cannot be separated – I would likely not be a member today.I have not read Following Christ, I did read and enjoy Believing Christ.
Hi Jeriboy, I suppose that my reaction was so visceral because I had found such hope in the previous book “believing Christ.” My vision of the church had shattered and I was grasping for something to hold onto. The expansive atonement described by Bro. Robinson was a balm to my troubled soul. That this might actually be a viable alternative way to view my faith and continue in the church gove me so much hope.
In contrast I felt that the thrust of “Following Christ” was that the atonement is only available to Mormons, is only accessable through ordinances and repeated “worthiness” evaluations, and may be revoked at any time due to lack of valiance/perseverance/endurance to the end.
It felt like he snatched the balm away from me and said in effect, “That is not for you! This message of hope is intended for overwhelmed and anxiety prone LDS housewives who constantly worry about their standing before the Lord. As for you, I’m pretty sure you are going to hell.”
I am glad that this message does work for you however. I believe that an important function of our religious beliefs is to satisfy some of our mental needs. I am happy that your needs are being fulfilled.
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