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i attended the Community of Christ church this past Sunday and it was neat to attend. Met the pastors and members there and asked a few questions to one of the pastors about beliefs, practices and their body of scripture. Here is some of what I learned about our “Faith Cousins”:
– they don’t use “The Pearl of Great Price” as one of their bodies of scripture.
– they use the JST of the bible.
– women have the priesthood and have a few (3 i think) female apostles (apparently from the pastor I talked to had said the church’s decision to give the priesthood to women [about 1985] was a highly contentious issue in which the church had lost some members over that decision).
– they have about 250, 000 members worldwide.
about the meeting (about 30 people in attendance):
– meetings were quietly conducted as LDS meetings are.
– Toronto is very multi-cultural but most in attendance where of white ancestry. Two in the congregation were of black ancestry – two teenage girls(one girl appeared to be part white).
– they administer the sacrament with the very same sacramental prayer the LDS use except they administer “wine”(real grape juice). a woman sat at the sacrament table and blessed it and passed it to the congregation – the exception was the presiding elder passed sacrament to those sitting on the stand.(his councillors, organist, and the sacrament blesser)
Cool mike!! With these more liberal changes, why do you think that Church is so much smaller than ours? Do you think our extreme ways of doing things, and our stilted, inflexible kinds of policies actually promote retention and growth? (Do they have temples and eternal marriage too?) SilentDawning wrote:why do you think that Church is so much smaller than ours?
I’m told their version of tithing is more severe than ours.
Also, I suspect their missionary program isn’t as thorough.
i didn’t ask about tithing, temples, or eternal marriage, but i did ask about baptism. they do baptisms with full immersion as they do in the lds church. i did ask if they had proselytizing missionaries like they do in the lds church but they don’t from what the pastor told me. as you both know that is probably why the LDS church has had so many join – because of the church’s very active proselytizing mission program.
the church says it has 13 million members but how many actually go to church ? i think John Dehlin discussed this a little on a “youtube” video he produced.
The CoC say 250, 000 members but, again, how many members actually attend ? i’ve heard that figure of 250,000 for years. also, the pastor i talked to said that giving women the priesthood was a highly contentious issue and lost members because of it. similarly, when the LDS church decided to give Blacks the priesthood, the LDS church also lost members. How many members the LDS church lost I just don’t know.
BeLikeChrist wrote:the church says it has 13 million members but how many actually go to church ? i think John Dehlin discussed this a little on a “youtube” video he produced.
The numbers are not public information, and seem to be closely guarded. Reliable sources leaking info seem to indicate somewhere between 20% and 40% attend regularly depending on the area and demographics. Having looked at several of the rosters in wards I lived in (outside Utah) and thinking about this exact question, those numbers are believable to me on a purely anecdotal level.
You have high-density areas in the Mormon Corridor where there might be upwards of 60% activity. But the majority of members they are counting in that big number of 14+ million members, they live outside the U.S. now. There’s a very low activity rate in those high growth areas from the 1980’s and 1990’s.
My opinion: somewhere around 30% overall are active, and maybe 25% of those active people are current TR holders.
Quote:My opinion: somewhere around 30% overall are active, and maybe 25% of those active people are current TR holders.
Another old, but potentially analogous statistic was published in Michael Quinn’s book Extensions of Power….back in the early days the Church, between 10 and 27 percent of the Church actually paid “some tithing”. After tithing was redefined as 10% of some formal annual increase by Lorenzo Snow, the figure jumped to about 28% or so. These are old numbers, but worth considering, although they don’t speak directly to the definition of active, which is attending Church twice a month.
Here is an article on it. I realize the author, Michael Quinn, is an excommunicated member, and one of the September 6, however, I don’t view these writings as anti-Mormon, but more historical and scholarly. Hopefully I’m not violating any site rules. If I am, then I welcome a moderation:
http://signaturebooks.com/2010/10/excerpt-extensions-of-power/ A Bishop friend of mine told me that people that are upper middle class in his Ward tended not to pay their tithing in full — it was the less fortunate that found it easier to pay their tithing, however, that too is anectdotal and doesn’t speak to activity rates.
And, beecause comparisons to other religious groups is of value, I have a post from a Pentacostal minister who answered the question about what his Church expects of their members to be fully engaged in the gospel:
Quote:
Answers will vary wildly on this, imho. Probably the least demanding churches are the “seeker-sensitive” mega-churches. They are all about making the non-Christian seeker (aka investigator) feel comfortable and non-threatened. In fact, when we moved to our current area, I checked one of these out and quickly realized there was nothing for me to do there. Once your converted, it seems, you simply help others get converted. There seems to be little instruction in how to mature as a Christian.In my fellowship, we have two “tiers.” Adherents are those who come frequently to regularly. They attend the worship meetings, and may choose to join the fellowship opportunities. Often 35-50% of the Sunday gathering is made up of these folks. They may or may not give an offering, and sometimes remain in this status for many months to even a few years.
Members, on the other hand, are those who commit to officially joining the church. They usually agree to tithe, and to join a small group. As their gifts become evident they will usually be encouraged to lend a hand in one of the church’s ministries (Sunday School, Women’s Ministry, etc.). Of the membership, most tithe, and more than half join a small group or help out in a ministry. Maybe one-third do both.
While this doesn’t say anything about activity rates in general, it does give you an idea of what percent are considered among the most committed in his rough outline from this minister.
Brian Johnston wrote:BeLikeChrist wrote:the church says it has 13 million members but how many actually go to church ? i think John Dehlin discussed this a little on a “youtube” video he produced.
The numbers are not public information, and seem to be closely guarded. Reliable sources leaking info seem to indicate somewhere between 20% and 40% attend regularly depending on the area and demographics. Having looked at several of the rosters in wards I lived in (outside Utah) and thinking about this exact question, those numbers are believable to me on a purely anecdotal level.
You have high-density areas in the Mormon Corridor where there might be upwards of 60% activity. But the majority of members they are counting in that big number of 14+ million members, they live outside the U.S. now. There’s a very low activity rate in those high growth areas from the 1980’s and 1990’s.
My opinion: somewhere around 30% overall are active, and maybe 25% of those active people are current TR holders.
Doesn’t it all depend on how we define members.
In fairness, the TR figure ISN’T as bad as it first sounds. A lot of the membership is too young to go to the temple, Mormons have large families, so that’s quite a big chunk. Whether they go inactive when they’re older is another question.
It strikes me being a bit like a political party, probably not an American political party, as they’re unrepresentative.
A- You’ve got the people who vote for the party occasionally, and do nothing else.
B- You’ve got the people who vote for the party all the time.
C- You’ve got the people who are not members but will help out with campaigning, or put a poster up in their window.
D- You’ve got the people who are party members, pay the fee, but don’t do much work for the party.
E- You’ve got the people who are hardcore members, do lots of work, and pay the fees and give donations.
F- Then finally, you’ve the people who become political candidates. This is obviously graded in itself….
If you’re talking about the church, then A corresponds to our occasional attenders, cultural Mormons, heritage Mormons etc. B refers to people who attend regularly but don’t get right into it. C refers to people who take some callings, but not TRs. D refers to people who do the minimum, but may get a TR for specific purposes. E refers to TR, temple married etc “TBM”s. F refers to bishops, and anyone above them.
And of course, these categories may vary at times. Some people flirt with ideas in their youth, then grow up to be boring folk.
SamBee wrote:In fairness, the TR figure ISN’T as bad as it first sounds. A lot of the membership is too young to go to the temple, Mormons have large families, so that’s quite a big chunk.
Agreed. That is an important qualification for the TR holding population compared to the overall church population.
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