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Throughout my time in the LDS church as well as times prior during my investigation, there have been several occurrences that I could see as direct intervention in my life by the Spirit, and often have. They have all been hard to write off as something of chance and always seem to come when I am thinking of what I should do going forward in regards to my faith. To name a couple, shortly after joining the church, I was laid off. At about the same time, my wife and I had some problems and my father had just given me news that his cancer had returned. I decided to take a trip from WA state to VA (about 2800 mile) to my small hometown to see my dad and get away from everything for a week or so. When I arrive, I posted on facebook that I was in town to see if there were any old friends that wanted to get together while I was in town. The first person that answered was a member of the bishopric for my ward who was in my hometown for a business meeting. I am not from a town like Atlanta where this would be a common possibility. We did meet and had a great talk. Recently as I have been questioning going back to church, I have been reading the scriptures daily again and praying for assistance in my decision. I lived here for a year and now have had my home teacher show up, the missionaries stop by, and this morning had a fellow member contact my wife (they work together) to see if we had anything that the youth could be of service for. Before my wife went out of town over the weekend, we both talked of finding time to clean up the back yard and the front flower beds. The member that emailed us mentioned both of these. This member was also the first person that my wife met when we moved here to take her new job. This person showed her around at work and turned out to be LDS and a member of my ward. As we were moving to SC, the overall membership here is very low as compared to the west coast. What are the odds? We have moved three times over 10 years and the first people my wife always meet are members of the LDS church. Something that I have viewed as a sign to her, as she is not a member, but one she has dismissed as chance. My son also approached me over the weekend asking if I could have the missionaries stop by the house as he would like to talk with them again and maybe return to church. As I read and study not only LDS views on things in general, but the baptist views as well thanks to my full time student status at a large baptist college, the views of life in general presented by the baptist and many in Protestant churches pushes me back to the LDS church. I am not one to discount and flatly ignore proven scientific facts if they contradict the Bible in some way or are not listed in the Bible, as many at my college seem to do. I tend to use reason more than the average church goer. I seem to default to the LDS church most of the time and accept their theology more so than mainstream Christian views, however find some of the LDS teachings as possibly incorrect as well. In short, I guess I find spiritual evidence to the truth of the LDS church, but that does not seem to be enough for me to accept it all fully and without question. What are the experiences of others here? Do you have constant whisperings of the spirit as to the truth of the church that keeps your overall testimony of the church strong while at the same time being able to accept the fact that some of it is just plain wrong or mis-interpetted? How do other members handle your views in your wards, or do you even make them known? I have emailed my current bishop in regards to the same, and eagerly await his response before returning to church, but I would also like to hear and discuss experiences of others in this forum. Thanks in advance for your time.
My experiences are similar. I was semi-active for 7 years and then went to an absolutely inspiring Ward. I felt an awakening to be active when I saw a Ward that lives up to its ideals. I started paying tithing again after many years of not paying….and then my Bishop called me into his office. He said he was cleaning his pool and thinking, and it became glaringly clear that the Lord wanted me to do something important, but that I needed that temple recommend. I told him that tithing was the only thing keeping me from a TR and that I had given it to him last week.
He then released this millionaire, successful construction person as a counselor, and then called me to be in the Bishopric. At this time, I was also praying for greater gifts in “administration” as I have such training, but rarely get to use it outside of education. With this calling, I got to work alongside several high profile managers and self-employeed people as this was a very wealthy Ward.
I don’t put these things down to chance. I see God as a highly complex being. I see my spiritual experiences as confirming good can come from my involvement in this Church. However, the inconsistencies, and for me, egocentricity of our Church at the expense of individuals can be very hard to shake. Yet, I too feel this tug to stay involved in some capacity.
I think it’s partly due to the high standards, the bold claims of all truth, and the confidence in such things projected by the leadership. These are things people want, and they don’t exist in other Churches.
How do you deal with your contrarion ideas when you are around others? My answer, you don’t share them. SAve them for online discussion. When I have shared such ideas, they hurt the staunch members, and can even destroy their faith.
Thanks for the reply SilentDawning. One thing that I have learned growing up in a Protestant household and attending a baptist college, is there are extremes in every church of every denomination. In my previous ward we had a lot of what i would call hard liners. Our views on something like what it meant to keep the sabbath holy varied a great deal. I remember getting into a rather heated argument one day with an older gentlemen in regards to watching football on Sunday and how that matter did not fall into an activity that was allowed on Sunday. Needless to say I had differing views, however I respect his opinion and interpretation of the scriptures and have no problem with him taking that approach with his family, however it surely is not something that is doctrinal and not something that I should be judged for. But I’m sure with a quick poll over at my college web forums, I could find plenty of people there that would agree with his thinking. I guess my main problem with our church and all the others is that far too often we take the avenue that so many things are this way or no way, when in reality we really do not know and will not know until we are on the other side of the veil. I feel that many of the churches have part of it right, but i find the most to be right at the LDS church. Like you have stated, the best way may be not to rock the boat so to speak and enjoy the good things in the church while lifting up questions we may have to Heavenly Father Himself and through fellow members at the forums. mlbrowninsc wrote:Needless to say I had differing views, however I respect his opinion and interpretation of the scriptures and have no problem with him taking that approach with his family, however it surely is not something that is doctrinal and not something that I should be judged for.
With that admission, I think you have placed yourself head and shoulders above many who frequent the corridors of our Church, and many LDS-related discussion forums. You leave yourself open to influence and greater light and knowledge as you grow older.
And by the way, I am actually very surprised. On this forum, there is far more diversity of opinion on core matters of our religion than any traditional believing discusson forum I’ve seen on the web. Yet the tone is usually very respectful of diverse opinions. The language is in keeping with reasoned gentlemen and women.
It’s a different discussion topic, but I’m totally baffled at why traditional believers have such trouble living the principle you have espoused in the quotation above.
I welcome people like you into the Church, as I do everyone. But the kind of tolerance, open-mindedness that you bring to a discussion is something I wish was far more general in the Church than it is at the moment. I think you have a bright future.
Thank you for your kind words. I base my thoughts on our 11th article of faith which states “We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.” I think this gets overlooked at times but I live this article of faith daily. My son and I are the only members of the LDS church in my family. The rest of my family are members over every denomination from Baptist to Catholic. Even though I do not agree with many of the ways they see things or interpret certain scriptures, I feel in the end, we will all have parts we are incorrect on and I choose to concentrate on our similarities rather than our differences. I am open to anyone’s opinions on all matters that face us or the church and will always respect differing opinions from my own, however in the end, my relationship with Heavenly Father is just that…mine. For those of us with children of our own, I think this concept is easy to understand. My relationship with my son and my daughter are both similar while at the same time very different. But that doesn’t mean that I love either one of the less, I love them both the same. I pray that as I become active again in the church I find other members that think like we do. We can all grow in Christ through open and respectful dialogue.
mlbrowninsc wrote:Thank you for your kind words. I base my thoughts on our 11th article of faith which states “We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.”
I love this, but wouldn’t our Church say this applies to people outside our religion (the other men part), rather than allowing people inside the Church to claim this freedom?
I know that many may view it that way, but the way I view it is that all of the articles of faith explain what we as a church believe. There is no distinction between only those inside the church or those outside of it. I see everyone as my brother or sister, not only those that have become members of our church. Everyone is on a spiritual path, but many of us are just further along. We are instructed to help all equally, regardless of where they are in their journey. In order to achieve that I feel that often times we have to respect others views and simply ask Heavenly Father for help, all the while realizing and accepting that in the end, it may be ourselves that need to change. This is how I handle being a part member family. I must say that it took me awhile to come to grips with that, but since I have, I’ve been happier and i feel that I have grown into a more Christ like way of seeing things. “All” means “all” – and “everywhere” means “everywhere” – and there are differences in views on some subjects even among the apostles. This is a case where I beleive strongly in parsing the actual words. All means all.
Old-Timer wrote:“All” means “all” – and “everywhere” means “everywhere” – and there are differences in views on some subjects even among the apostles.
This is a case where I beleive strongly in parsing the actual words. All means all.
liberating thoughts…and even if the Church does interpret all as meaning “others”, there is the first half to rely on that says:
Quote:
Weclaim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of ourown conscience .
This definitely refers to the inside group.
mlbrowninsc, It sounds to me you are drawn to the LDS faith, and those spiritual experiences are real to you, and mean something profound.
I feel similar, and cannot deny the experiences I’ve had. At one point I thought I could explain them all away, coincidence or hopeful interpretations….but in my heart, I feel there is something out there hearing my prayers and prompting certain people to help me in my path. And so I choose to believe, and it makes me feel good when do. I cannot prove things otherwise, so I cling to my LDS faith as the best possible story that helps me…and so I stayLDS.
Not everything makes sense all the time in the church, and I don’t get answers to all my prayers when I need them, which puzzles me…but I think that is part if the experience that we get to choose to have faith or not.
I don’t stay LDS because I fear of going to he’ll or lower kingdoms if I leave….I stay because I want to, I see good in the church, and frankly, the doctrines speak more to me than any other stories I have come across, and so it works for me, even though I don’t agree with all things and also take article#11 to heart to worship according to my own conscience.
If you feel you like things about the church, and feel you experience good things and answers to prayers, then I say stay and enjoy it, even if there a elements of it that cause you discomfort. I liked your earlier statement about many churches get extreme and it is all or nothing….I don’t think it has to be that way.
mlbrowninsc wrote:in the end, my relationship with Heavenly Father is just that…mine. For those of us with children of our own, I think this concept is easy to understand. My relationship with my son and my daughter are both similar while at the same time very different. But that doesn’t mean that I love either one of the less, I love them both the same.
I love this mlbrowninsc. I am developing my end of the relationship and I am discovering my Heavenly Father’s end of this relationship (and He is more unwaveringly loving than ever I had imagined). But just because that is the relationship that fits my needs doesn’t mean that it will work for others. Perhaps my brother’s and sister’s conceptions of God and their interactions with Him are not any less accurate than mine. Perhaps our Heavenly Father is willing to engage with each of his children in whatever way that is viable for the son or daughter involved.
Thanks for the perspective mlbrowninsc!
:thumbup:
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