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Well, as some of you know, one of my problems with the Church is how the members get used as free labor without regard for their personal circumstances….this often manifests itself in members serving in callings long after they have asked for a release. Leaders seem all interested in you when you are available and serving, but when you need a break, they are indifferent to your personal needs. My wife has been a Primary president three times in her lifetime now. This time, she’s been in the saddle for about two years, and started working full-time outside the home in January of this year. In April, she was about done and spoke to our Bishop’s first counselor about a release. The indicated “it might take some time to find someone suitable”. She mentioned it again a couple months later, and got a non-committal response. I heard her mention it a third time in the hall to the man, and he said “Yes, we’ll have to see what we do about that” or some other non-committal statement. She had a PPI scheduled with the Bishop a few weeks ago, but he didn’t show up for it — she was going to mention it at that time, and when he didn’t show, she went over to the first counselor’s house and mentioned the no-show, and the fact that she thinks it’s time for a release. No action in sight.
Anyway — you get the picture. This is a repeat of my own situation that led to a crisis two years ago. I have not egged her on, I have not dwelt on this with her, but now, it’s starting to get under my skin.
I’m considering setting an appointment with our Bishop, to discuss this with him with my wife. She is willing to participate. I’m wondering what thoughts you woulld have on this? Just let it go on and on and on and on? Give a deadline and then start going to another Ward until a release is effected? Meet and express our concerns, and get a commitment from our Bishop for a stop-date?
Thoughts?
That’s a tricky situation because she wants to honor her commitment, yet it’s become too much & has not been relieved, even after asking repeatedly to be released from a volunteercalling. If she just stops doing anything, it may leave a lot of work on her councilors who may resent it (& gossip too). If she keeps working her toosh off, feeling overwhelmed with her obligations, she may feel like a door mat. I’d suggest she talk with her councilors & explain the situation & ask if one of them would be willing to attend Ward Council meetings each Sunday at least for a couple of weeks & kindof run the show & tell someone in the bishopric that she is feeling overwhelmed & is going to take a break so that they can find someone new. Maybe that will get things going.
To help you & her feel better… remember she likely greatly contributed to the spirituality & well being of children… & for that, I express my admiration!
Featherina wrote:That’s a tricky situation because she wants to honor her commitment, yet it’s become too much & has not been relieved, even after asking repeatedly to be released from a
volunteercalling. If she just stops doing anything, it may leave a lot of work on her councilors who may resent it (& gossip too). If she keeps working her toosh off, feeling overwhelmed with her obligations, she may feel like a door mat. I’d suggest she talk with her councilors & explain the situation & ask if one of them would be willing to attend Ward Council meetings each Sunday at least for a couple of weeks & kindof run the show & tell someone in the bishopric that she is feeling overwhelmed & is going to take a break so that they can find someone new. Maybe that will get things going.
To help you & her feel better… remember she likely greatly contributed to the spirituality & well being of children… & for that, I express my admiration!
To what extent do you think it should be a joint conversation with the Bishop? By the way, Ward Council is one of the biggest thorns in her side. Nothing gets done, the council decides to do something, and then they find out later the Bishop reverse it (he’s new, and from the sound of it, not used to this kind of responsibility). She has decided to stop attending that meeting, and sending someone in her place. But frankly, she just wants out of this.
That’s not cool of the defective leadership in your unit, SD. It should not be that way. My idea…give them a date with ample time (30 days or 60 days) at which point your wife will not function any longer in that calling. There are counselors in the presidency that can carry the baton until a replacement is found. Then you have done what you can do…it is their problem from there on.
Heber13 wrote:My idea…give them a date with ample time (30 days or 60 days) at which point your wife will not function any longer in that calling. There are counselors in the presidency that can carry the baton until a replacement is found. Then you have done what you can do…it is their problem from there on.
In my experience, these kinds of ultimatums only destroy one’s relationship with the leaders who expect obedience. In my last calling, I just stopped functioning and it really hurt me personally. I am a leper to the leadership now.
However, because this has gone on since April now, I’m favoring going in there with the ultimatum nonetheless, and indicating we will be away for four Sundays following a certain date — at which point we would like to see her released. I will take my family to surrounding Wards on Sundays and we will look at homes and schools in those areas. Let the Bishop know that my employment is not stable (true) and we are planning to downsize, so we are looking for other suitable homes in other areas for a change.
Have you ever noticed how people are suddenly moving in Wards, and then, they are not? I heard this all the time as a priesthood leader. I’m starting to suspect that half of it is smoke and mirrors to get out of callings since the leadership is so dastardly uncaring about such things. Faking a move is often the only way to get action.
Wouldn’t it be nice if we could talk openly about how we REALLY feel about the Church with our leaders without fear of impunity? Do you think if they knew how on the edge I personally am about the Church given behavior such as this a couple years ago, they might be handling this situation a bit differently?
I’m shaking my head as these experiences are only confirming some of the contrarion attitudes I’ve formed with just how egocentric the Church leadership is about itself.
SD, I’m sorry to hear that your wife is struggling with her calling. My wife was recently released as a counselor in the Primary presidency. She asked to be released. She had served in that calling for nearly three years and (as you probably know) Primary can be incredibly draining. Our bishop was very understanding when my wife spoke to him about being released and within a couple of weeks the change had been made. It was the first time she had ever asked to be released from a calling and she struggled with the decision for a while.
I had been in a particular calling for about three years. It wasn’t a very difficult calling but one that I didn’t like very much. I also approached the bishop about being released (first time I had every been asked to be released) and found that he hadn’t realized I had been in the calling for that long. Again, he was very supportive and understanding and within a month I was on to other things.
As I read about the experiences that other people have in their wards, I become more and more convinced that the quality of the LDS experience depends a great deal on the local leadership. It saddens me to think that some people end up struggling with the church not because of doctrinal issues or personal problems but because the local leadership is either inept or unhelpful. Not sure how you solve that problem!
SilentDawning wrote:To what extent do you think it should be a joint conversation with the Bishop? By the way, Ward Council is one of the biggest thorns in her side. Nothing gets done, the council decides to do something, and then they find out later the Bishop reverse it (he’s new, and from the sound of it, not used to this kind of responsibility). She has decided to stop attending that meeting, and sending someone in her place. But frankly, she just wants out of this.
Hi SilentDawning,
I’m not sure what you’re asking… if you should join her in discussing this with the Bishop?
If so, it might help – go with your intuition… & maybe a letter with your attorney’s letterhead on the top. ha ha (Just kidding on that last part.) But she could write a letter herself, just for added emphasis, as it seems it’s needed.
Gerald wrote:…the quality of the LDS experience depends a great deal on the local leadership. It saddens me to think that some people end up struggling with the church not because of doctrinal issues or personal problems but because the local leadership is either inept or unhelpful. Not sure how you solve that problem!
Hi Gerald,
You raise an important point. Personally, I think if the church can invest in ESL classes, they can invest in basic management & counciling classes for bishops.
Ray keeps saying the same thing — that it depends on your local leaders. Unfortunately, it sounds like I’ve had my spate of them over the years. For me, they define my Church experiences to some extent. I did have a great Mission President though. I have no complaints about him whatsoever. At least there is that. I’m starting to believe that if I’m going to survive in this religion, I’m going to have to be far more assertive with our leaders — but in a kind, gentlemanly way. The idea of boundaries feels better and better….
Quote:The idea of boundaries feels better and better….
Yup.
:clap: It’s time for a “pardon my bluntness” disclaimer, but you did ask . . .
Quit caring so much about what other people think of you – and then do what you feel is right for you and your family (with the caveat that you only can “advise and counsel with” your wife when it comes to things that are concerned with her calling). Ideally, if possible, she needs to be the one acting as an agent unto herself – at least, to the greatest degree possible.
I know that is MUCH harder to do than to write to someone else. Seriously, I get that. I’ve told you previously that I think one of your biggest issues is caring too much about how you are seen, coupled with unrealistic expectations of yourself and others. It makes you a bit of a control freak, and it leads sometimes to over-analyzing things. Finding peace and comfort in your own skin even when others’ peace and comfort is radically different ultimately is the answer, imo – and that’s harder for some people than it is for others.
Quote:“We claim the privilege of worshiping almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience.”
Understand that more fully and use it as your mantra.
So, keep plugging away line upon line, precept upon precept – and don’t give in to the urge to try to change multiple things at once. Take things one at a time (or, perhaps, two or three at a time, factoring in the needs of your wife and children, as well), based on a priority you determine independent of anything else.
On Sunday my wife told the Bishopric she is done in January. She feels they’ve had ample time since she first mentioned it in April. She too is concerned about pulling out the great guns and coming in with her husband although she sees the need to do something. In January, we are going Ward-hopping for about as long as it takes for them to get off their duffs and find a replacement. She’s at me constantly me to buy a house in a different Ward because she’s about had it with this one. She wants me to buy a condominium so at least we have an address to give. So, over the top. The answer to the uneven/inept leadership problem? For me it’s to disengage with the leadership. You can’t change these guys. They will do whatever they see fit. And they are volunteers like me. It creates a cash cow at the Ward level, but the price is often paid by ineptitude and stuff falling off the table. It would be nice to quantify just how many dedicated people we lose due to the lack of appreciation and consideration the local leaders give to their people.
Take advantage of/support the Ward programs for the sake of my kids, do some home teaching, take on assignments as I see fit. At the same timestop viewing calling involvement in the Church as a major part of my life, as my service to the world, and as the outlet for leadership abilities and growth. It was all these things for many years. I realize now that much of it is simply a waste of time.
Like my Bishop friend said — his priorities were the things to keep the Ward running — callings staffed, the finances in order, welfare cases addressed, the reports given to the Stake as needed, and interviews he had to do. The rest was less important if it didn’t get done. It’s a deflating thought — but I guess that’s what we mean by excellence in the Lord’s Church.
SilentDawning wrote:In my experience, these kinds of ultimatums only destroy one’s relationship with the leaders who expect obedience. In my last calling, I just stopped functioning and it really hurt me personally. I am a leper to the leadership now.
How do those relationships work before an ultimatum is set?
I got news for you my friend. They didn’t think much of you before your ultimatum either if they didn’t want to bother listening to you and doing anything about your suffering. They were not your friends. You were a cog in the machine that was helping them not feel bad about their own failures as leaders or lack of resources. It was just a different kind of disrespect: a less-conscious contempt covered with a veneer of friendly handshakes, smiles and pats on the back.
Establishing boundaries, and showing that you can give of yourself without also being taken advantage of, that earns another form of respect from people.
SilentDawning wrote:Like my Bishop friend said — his priorities were the things to keep the Ward running — callings staffed, the finances in order, welfare cases addressed, the reports given to the Stake as needed, and interviews he had to do. The rest was less important if it didn’t get done.
Priority should be preach the Word of God to people, serve them and lift them and teach them and love them. The staffing and administrative is less important, and can be delegated.
I wish I had some good advice for you. I feel for you though and I am praying for you. Thanks Roy — and Heber. I’m thankful we have the Internet that connects people in this way and that you seem to care about this. I really do. I think Brian’s statement was a real RINGER. I never thought of it that way — they didnt’ respect me before I made a stink about the slow release either. It appeared that they had respect, but as you said, the true nature of the relationship only became explicit when they chose not to release me and then treated me like a bit of a leper afterwards. The point? This particular group of men really didn’t care about the sheep. They only cared about the sheep farm. So why care about their perceptions at all?
You know, I’m starting to find greater peace in expanding something that benefits people in a significant way, rather than from the Church at all…. Since my exodus from active, committed and damaging overcommitment to the Church, I think I said I started teaching a little girl from a poor family how to play the ukelele. This has gone on for many moths, perhaps a year now. She is blossomming and loves the lessons..prepares every week and when she sees me at Church, she smiles at me. She is deeply appreciative….appreciation or not, I feel that I’m doing something memorable for that girl’s life.
Another 8 year old kid from a poor family was at my house last week, and remembered how I showed him how to play Blue Suede Shoes on the ukelele a year ago. I had completely forgotten. He asked to do it again with wide eyes, trying to get me into the music room so we could play again, which we did. His family approached me about lessons two years ago, but when I told them the fee, which was below market rates, they balked and it never went anywhere. I see this as a way I can have a deep, meaningful impact on one of “the sheep” — to expand this service of free lessons to other kids. Far better than any impact I had within the walls of our Church and far more meaningful to me personally. Thank you for getting my thinking going on this…we can get fulfilment from many other sources that Church service, in spite of what they may lead us to beleive.
For me, Church service at the high commitment level is no longer rewarding at any level – intrinsic, or extrinsic.
SD, please read this only for what it says. Don’t read between the lines, because there’s nothing there to read. 
You need validation. You need to feel appreciated, accepted and loved. You need to know you are doing well – and that your efforts and actions are noticed.
That’s NOT a bad thing, in and of itself. It is a good thing, in that it prompts you to want to help and serve and be of benefit. You nailed it in your last comment.
Given that internal, deeply personal need, it is important for you to find “proper” ways for that type of fulfillment – and I also think what probably will work best for you in the immediacy of the here and now is to focus on individual service, helping those around you (the “ones”) in a meaningful, powerful, uplifting way.
I’m not sure you ever really knew yourself, so to speak, in your previous “work” in the Church; I think you have a chance to find yourself now by losing yourself in the more focused service of those “ones”.
I think you might have read the first post to which I’m linking at some point, but perhaps not. It isn’t apples-to-apples, but it might resonate a little more for you now than when you read it the last time – as you picture, perhaps, becoming more like my father was for so long instead of who he could have been in a different situation. The second one was a follow-up to it, and I don’t think I’ve linked it here previously:
“My Niece Died This Morning” (
http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2007/10/my-niece-died-this-morning.html “A Tribute to Charity: My Father Had a Stroke This Week” (
http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2010/02/tribute-to-charity-my-father-had-stroke.html
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