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If we are commanded to write our journals for our future posterity, then why didn’t Christ himself write any scriptures? Or why haven’t any records written by Him been found? I think it would be awesome to read scriptures written by Christ himself. We could see more fully what makes Him the Savior. We could see life through a sinless (now perfect) man’s point of view. Your thoughts on this? He was a preacher, not a writer. That was common back then.
If you think about it, we don’t have anything at all that was written by anyone during his lifetime. It appears that the disciples only thought to write about him and his ministry after the resurrection – when, perhaps for the very first time, it crossed their minds that they needed to do so to tell his story. (and maybe that was part of the post-resurrection instruction: “Look, everyone, you need to write all this stuff down if you’re going to preach my Gospel.”)
Yeah, that is a good point. Perhaps it is because he never really was what all those scriptures say he was, or even worse he never existed. Just saying There is an apocryphal letter purportedly written by Jesus. I believe this letter between Jesus and the King Abgarus dates to the 4th century. Obviously, the authenticity is questionable. Here’s the letter in entirety. I blogged about it last year at http://www.mormonheretic.org/2010/12/19/a-letter-written-by-jesus/ Quote:Chapter 1
1 – Abgarus, king of Edessa, to Jesus the good Saviour who appears at Jerusalem, greeting.
2 – I have been informed concerning you and your cures, which are performed without the use of medicines and herbs.
3 – For it is reported that you cause the blind to see, the lame to walk, do both cleanse lepers, and cast out unclean spirits and devils, and restore them to health who have been long diseased, and raisest up the dead;
4 – All which when I heard, I was persuaded of one of these two, viz: either that you are God himself descended from heaven, who do these things, or the son of God.
5 – On this account therefore I have wrote to you, earnestly to desire you would take the trouble of a journey hither, and cure a disease which I am under.
6 – For I hear the Jews ridicule you, and intend you mischief.
7 – My city is indeed small, but neat, and large enough for both of us.
Chapter 2
1 – Abgarus, you are happy, forasmuch as you have believed on me, whom ye have no see.
2 – For it is written concerning me, that those who have seen me should not believe on me, that they who have not seen might believe and live.
3 – As to that part of your letter, which relates to my giving you a visit, I must inform you, that I must fulfil all the ends of my mission in this country, and after that be received up again to him who went me.
4 – But after my ascension I will send one of my disciples, who will cure your disease, and give life to you, and all that are with you.
Maybe he wasn’t fully literate. He is shown disputing the scriptures in the synagogue at age 12, which implies literacy, but perhaps he didn’t have the means or experience to write well. Son of a carpenter implies to us he was a tradesman, but the word for carpenter that is used in the Bible is not a skilled trade – more like “itinerant construction worker.” Remember that for millenia, adult literacy has been a very low percentage of the population. Only in our day is it common. Maybe he has, but we don’t have it. Maybe he has others write down his thoughts and feelings. Or…
Maybe
It’s good to be the King.
Maybe people would be less likely to accept him as even a prophet if they could read his actual words. Maybe, like it says in the BofM about some of the prophets, he was mighty unto speaking but not mighty in writing. I don’t know, but there are plenty of possibilities.
Maybe all his writings were “destroyed” during the “great apostasy” years by the Catholic church? except for the ones maintained by heretical scientists and uncovered in time for Dan Brown to write “The DaVinci Code”. :shh: I kind of said that in jest. BUT…I personally believe in a Jesus, and I believe he did leave a record. I just don’t think what he really said and was about, is what our records today indicate. I think the apostles of his time took “liberties,” and the catholic church took more liberties, took all the records of the time and decided what would work best for “the people” and what wouldn’t. Plausible? It what our church teaches.
Have any of you read the “Forbidden Books of the NT”? Archbishop Wake, William, 1657-1737
Subtitle: “The suppressed Gospels and epistles of the original New Testament of Jesus the Christ. And other portions of the ancient holy scripture. Now extant, attributed to his Apostles, and their disciples, and venerated by the primitive christian churches during the first four centuries, but since, after violent disputations forbidden by the Bishops of the Nicene council…”
Scary stuff….according to Thomas, As a kid Jesus would strike people blind for taunting him, and killed a gaggle of kids who brushed against him and refused to apologized…and only quit after Joseph and Mary disciplined him.
So, how do we know the stuff they left in the bible is any more historical valid than that kind of doctrine, at all? We don’t know —- it’s all on faith, and we very well could have a bible and religion with the Gospel of Thomas, had some bishop hadn’t decided to dump it.
My point is, I don’t believe the bible is “true.” I believe it has some good concepts and valid teachings for our time. But is it “true”? Well, we all have our own answer to that question.
Well said, cwald. Every single bit of how we view the Bible is based on faith, to some degree, if we believe any of it. It’s totally ironic to me that Mormons would take it as literally as we (as a group) tend to do, especially given our Articles of Faith that relate directly to your points. cwald, you have some very good points. I suppose that we just have to have faith that the early church chose the right books to include in the Bible. I believe that we can trust that they cared about getting the best books in and rejecting false doctrines, but trusting that they did their best isn’t the same thing as believing that they were perfect. I believe that if the early Christians had had anything actually written by Jesus that they would have treasured those and that we would still have them today. As it is, it seems that what we have is multiple versions of oral traditions written down decades later, with some of the books being revisions of others. It is somewhat troubling that some of the decisions on which books made it into the canon seemed to be based on how well those books agreed with their Christological views or on whether the books supported views of the heretics, but we have what we have. I kind of think that if they had decided not to include Revelation (which was the last book they decided on, near 400 AD) that we would be in a much better state. It seems that every sect that gets some crazy new interpretation of the gospel has largely based it on Revelation.
cwald wrote:I believe it has some good concepts and valid teachings for our time. But is it “true”? Well, we all have our own answer to that question.
It also has some concepts that are dangerous and should be disregarded.
😈 cwald – yes, I’ve read a lot of these lost books. Bart Ehrmann has a pretty good compilation that I’ve read: http://books.google.com.sg/books/about/Lost_scriptures.html?id=yWbdFTEUcG0C&redir_esc=y It really just begs the question about the validity of what’s in and what’s out, something that should be obvious to anyone who’s ever stumbled across Song of Solomon (metaphor for Christ, my eye!). However, I found his analysis of the ones that are still in the Bible more illuminating: the Pauline epistles not written by Paul, those that were altered by others, the final verses of Mark that are clearly inserted by another author, and unfortunately, the debunking of the story of the woman taken in adultery (one of the most inspiring stories in the NT).
I haven’t read Forbidden Books, but I read Lost Books, and I think they contain similar writings.
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