McLay podcast

I’ve been listening to the interview too over the past couple days during my commute. It’s loooooooooooooong , so I haven’t finished yet. I am on part 4 of 5.

Their story is both dramatic and at the same time completely mundane and ordinary. Their story is no different on some level than those of thousands and thousands of other members who crash at full speed into the wall of faith crisis. In fact, I would say there are families out there that fare far worse. At least the McKlays as a couple were on the same page. That is quite rare, and a huge benefit to processing disaffection. They stayed a team and a couple. So I feel for them, but at the same time I also think “gee, you actually have it easy in some ways.”

It breaks my heart to say this, but I think they did pretty much have to resign. 😥 x100

Here’s why: They were in an all-or-nothing game of poker. They were painted into a corner by their involvement in CES. Take out the CES component, and they could have totally adjusted their diet in the Mormon cafeteria. The majority of members do that, whether conscious or not of what they are doing. I think it would have been far more messy trying to partially back away in order to get breathing room to process the crisis. And if they were going to leave CES and fall victim to the fallout, PR machine and blame game, they might as well control their story and exit on their own terms.

The value in their story IMO is more because they are so eloquent and willing to share. It’s a good, heartfelt interview that displays in detail the struggles of the “every man” in the Church that faces disaffection. I think the REAL value is the total mundane nature of their disaffection story. It’s everyone’s story, in a way.

I also think their former status in the church, and their kind way of describing the church after the fact make it a good version of the story. They are not foaming at the mouth, anti-mormon ranters. I think they come across as very reasonable, and positive about their experiences looking back.

Good point about the diagram Heber, I hadn’t thought about it in that way exactly, and I agree. I wish more people could see it that way. The problem is the either/or framework that so many have ingrained for so long.

I do see your point about the poker game Brian, that is exactly what bothers me so much. I wish there was a way to change the game so all these people won’t see it as either/or. Like I first said here I think it could be a small(ish) attitude change in the church (granted larger for some members), and then a larger change with CES. I’m just dreaming here, spending my time mourning.

I agree the McLay story is somewhat mundane, but it does have added bite from the CES employment. Their desire to be honest as they know it has basically led to financial ruin.

Some days I just wish I could broadcast to all the church members I know the declarative question “we can be honest about our history can’t we?!! We can talk about Joseph’s many wives (young and wives of apostles alike), about his stone in the hat, about his drinking wine at Carthage and in the Kirtland Temple, about the Masonic similarities to the endowment, blood atonement, Adam-God, etc. etc. etc… We can talk about these things as faithful truth-loving members! Can’t we?!!?! :sick:

I liked he one point made by his father, that when dating you put your best foot forward, as does the church. But I wished they would have mentioned that when you start to commit, like marriage, it will cause relationship problems if things were buried, kept secret, and when you have to discover how bad the other foot is, it doesn’t make it easy to process.

YES, YES, YES!!