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February 2, 2012 at 3:41 am #206437
Anonymous
GuestI recently (within perhaps the last 2-3 weeks) read an article by a non-member says he hadd written unflattering articles about the Church. But recently had finally read the BofM. He noted that as literature, it was very boring, nevertheless, he couldn’t ignore the fact that it so strongly testified of Christ. This new article was really an awaking of him to the Christianity of the Church. I thing the article could be useful in a PR class I will teach Feb 12. I don’t recall if the article was cited here at StayLDS, at Mormonhaven.com, or some news article I happened to read. I have looked everywhere I can think, but haven’t founded it. Does anyone knows where I could find it again
I would surely appreciate it if someone could help me locate it.
:February 2, 2012 at 5:25 pm #249838Anonymous
Guestdash1730 wrote:I recently (within perhaps the last 2-3 weeks) read an article by a non-member says he hadd written unflattering articles about the Church. But recently had finally read the BofM. He noted that as literature, it was very boring, nevertheless, he couldn’t ignore the fact that it so strongly testified of Christ. This new article was really an awaking of him to the Christianity of the Church. I thing the article could be useful in a PR class I will teach Feb 12.
I don’t recall if the article was cited here at StayLDS, at Mormonhaven.com, or some news article I happened to read. I have looked everywhere I can think, but haven’t founded it. Does anyone knows where I could find it again
I would surely appreciate it if someone could help me locate it.
:Maybe it was in this topic:
An Astounding Essay about Mormonism by a Non-Mormon Scholar
February 2, 2012 at 6:19 pm #249839Anonymous
GuestQuote:He noted that as literature, it was very boring, nevertheless, he couldn’t ignore the fact that it so strongly testified of Christ.
A good exercise is to highlight every reference to Jesus in the BoM.
Not just “Jesus”, “Christ”, “Savior” and “Messiah”, the obvious ones, but also “Holy One of Israel” and so on.
Flicking through a BoM where this has been done (and I’ve done it myself), you can’t ignore how Christological it actually is.
February 2, 2012 at 11:20 pm #249840Anonymous
GuestI think the one you mean is the one that DA linked. February 4, 2012 at 5:04 am #249841Anonymous
GuestThanks, DevilsAdvocate, that’s the article I am looking for. It is an amazing article. I’m astounded by his insights. I think informed outsiders sometimes have some truly astonishing things uniquely Mormonism. We can’t see them because we are like fish who are the last to discover water.
I also like the idea of highlighting every reference to Jesus Christ, and all other names for him in the Book of Mormon. Thanks again everyone for helping me find this article
February 4, 2012 at 11:49 am #249842Anonymous
Guestdash1730 wrote:I also like the idea of highlighting every reference to Jesus Christ, and all other names for him in the Book of Mormon. Thanks again everyone for helping me find this article
what a . Dr. Stephen Webb has boiled down the essence of the church to the unique truth it offers: the material reality of eternal life — the utter rejection of the platonic incursion into christianity. this is far mor important than most people realize.really great articlehere is a quote from the article i found to be extraordinary and insiightful:
Stephen H. Webb wrote:The eternal embodiment of the divine is metaphysically audacious, and it explains why Mormonism is so inventive. Mormon metaphysics is Christian metaphysics minus Origen and Augustine—in other words, Christianity divorced from Plato. Mormons are so materialistic that they insist that the same unchanging laws govern both the natural and the supernatural. They also deny the virgin birth, since their materialism leads them to speculate that Jesus is literally begotten by the immortal Father rather than conceived by the Holy Spirit.
By treating the spiritual as a dimension of the material, Smith overcomes every trace of dualism between this world and the next. Matter is perfectible because it is one of the perfections of the divine. Even heaven is merely another kind of galaxy, far away but not radically different from planet earth. For Mormons, our natural loyalties and loves have an eternal significance, which is why marriages will be preserved in heaven. Our bodies are literally temples of the divine, which is why Mormons wear sacred garments underneath regular clothing.
by rejection the realm of the platonic ideal, where “god” is the personification thereof, and the notion that the physical is merely a creation, mormonism puts the challenge to us to reconcile natural law with gods will — in fact, section 88 equates the power of god with natural law: nature is ontologically eternal and unchanging, and in section 131, spirit is matter, and is also eternal. the deification of man into gods, and the couplet “as man is god once was…” subordinates god to his own power: divine nature becomes the very ground of being, and all truth, scientific and spiritual, become reconciled into one great whole–into one eternal round.this is the essential message of the restoration–this is what JS got absolutely right. all else–all the speculation, the attempts to be perfect (derived from the platonic ideal), all the lies and deceptions we have had to accept for 170 years as some of the creative innovations became dogma and strange, unnatural practice in the church… all this only detracts from the purity of the core message of the restored gospel.
why does it take a non-member to remind us of why we stayLDS?
February 4, 2012 at 3:44 pm #249843Anonymous
GuestQuote:why does it take a non-member to remind us of why we stayLDS?
Because a non-member can admire “pure Mormonism” from afar without having to work in the trenches amid the tension between the ideal and the real.He can be the observer; we are the farmers – working in the mud and the muck and the manure trying to grow something beautiful and sweet. We need the observers, but we need the farmers just as much, if not more. Without the farmers, the observers would have nothing to observe.
I also loved the focus on “pure Mormonism” in this article. Yes, it gets messy in the trenches, when “The Church” (the collective “We actually are”, at the most fundamental level) doesn’t match the ideal for which we long – but the underlying grandeur and mind-blowing expansiveness of the core, pure theology shines through our pitiful attempts to understand and live it when the light hits the diamonds just right, so to speak. Even after all these years, I stil get blinded by the light when I step back a bit and let it shine.
To change analogies, it’s even more brilliant when the full orchestral sound washes around me and penetrates my soul (body and spirit combined) – when I experience those momenst of communal harmony that make my heart-strings hum and vibrate in tune with it all.
I wish so badly that the entire Church was like that – even if only somewhat regularly. I wish each ward and branch and stake had those moments on a somewhat regular basis – when Zion emerges and flows inward and outward – when the concept and the principle of the City of Enoch (another grand allegory and symbol, imo) comes into focus a bit more clearly and I actually can understand what it might be like to be caught up into heaven with people I love and who love me. I know it’s not like that fully, even in my own ward that really is wonderful in so many ways – and I understand why others get disheartened when they never experience it week after soul-numbing week – but I’ve seen it and I can see it and I know it’s possible and “pure Mormonism” is why I have seen it and can see it and know it’s possible.
Thanks, again, for the reminder of this article. It’s been good to read it again and feel again what I just wrote.
February 6, 2012 at 5:16 am #249844Anonymous
GuestI just posted a positive review of the Book of Mormon from an atheist. I’m sure it is not the article you are referring to because I just posted it. But perhaps you might find it interesting. See http://www.mormonheretic.org/2012/02/05/friendly-atheist-finds-value-in-book-of-mormon/ February 6, 2012 at 6:28 pm #249845Anonymous
GuestI think Professor Webb’s article is a good example of observing (as Ray puts it), and looking for the good in what you observe, while still having an opinion or disbelief about it. What I like is it is focusing on what he finds he likes in Mormonism, not what he thinks is “exotic and abnormal”. He suggests Mormons are not anti-Christian. But I think he still can’t hide his condescension, suggesting Gnostics are on one extreme, and Mormons on the other…as if both are equally dangerous options to consider. It isn’t like the guy is converting to Mormonism and accepting it all and getting baptized in the Church…he isn’t accepting it and getting involved in the farming…he is just observing and reminding Christians there is good stuff in Mormonism and Christians don’t need to fear it, or they will remain ignorant to it.
wayfarer wrote:why does it take a non-member to remind us of why we stayLDS?
I think the answer is because the members have the same kind of arguments against other religions that this professor is writing about towards Christians. In the Church, you don’t find articles written about how beautiful Buddhism is, or how valuable atheist logical reasoning can be to us as members, but members still focus on the superiority of Mormonism to any other way. So it takes an outsider to remind us, we can benefit from study and admiration of other schools of thought, Christian to Mormon, or Mormon to anything else. We don’t need to fear what we don’t know.
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