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  • #206453
    Anonymous
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    One of the oldest questions is pre-programming vs free will, or as we prefer to call it, “agency”.

    I am, partly a result of certain psychological traits which I have, and which I would not choose to have. it is so frustrating sometimes. My logic tells me one thing, and my emotions are away down some other route…

    Right now, I’m trying to change my life. It’s so hard. I am trying to make certain changes, but it isn’t merely a matter of my agency. If I could choose, I would make myself a great deal tidier, extroverted, happier and articulate (I write better than I speak), than I am. I can’t do house work to save myself. I find it difficult to deal with large groups of people, have confidence issues, and am hopeless looking for, or running a proper workplace.

    My skills with women are abysmal, and I still think of someone who I was last in contact with ten years ago. [Clearing out, I came across some letters she sent me] She was the only woman I ever loved, and despite all the “plenty more fish in the sea” arguments, I have never found anyone who came close to her. I am not looking for women like her, but women I can like as much as her. Slightly different concept. I find a lot of women physically attractive, but I do not connect with them. This last ten years has been frittered away. She lives in another country, and I am unlikely to ever see her again. But me, here, seems to have done nothing and have gone nowhere.

    I also have issues with depression, and anxiety, and suspect I’m probably somewhere on the autistic spectrum. This is all without going into my physical attributes.

    This is what frustrates me about so called “agency”. I don’t choose to be this way. Well, not completely anyway. Some of my choices are bad ones, but certain things are beyond my control. I realise I am in a better position than many people in certain regards, but I wish I could change more of these things.

    I know many people who could be so much more, but they can’t help themselves. Their “patterns” keep them trapped.

    More later.

    #250040
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I am no expert, but I think autism is referred to as a spectrum disorder because we’re all on the spectrum somewhere. I know that I, personally have many autistic tendencies which I seem to have passed on to some of my children. It can certainly be difficult at times, particularly in a culture where connecting with others is so valued. I have seen my son struggle with this, but I feel confident that he’s learning to make strides towards personal fulfillment

    This will probably be a rehash of stuff we discussed long ago, but I’m curious if you know where you fit on the MBTI matrix. I would suspect that you would fit (as I do) in one of the more rarified slots. Whether or not there is any scientific basis to the whole MBTI thing, I believe there’s something to it. For me, realizing that there is actually a category for me, that I’m in many ways very unlike the majority of people, that there are others like me, and that there are practical uses for my strengths is extremely empowering to me. It also helps me to know, when I can remember, that I shouldn’t be surprised when other people act or think in ways that make no sense to me. They’re doing their thing, I’m doing mine. It’s all good.

    Have you read The Power of Now? Again, there are varied opinions on this book (and others like it), but I have found it to be of immense practical use in dealing with the feelings and issues that you describe so well. Of course no book is a panacaea, but if you haven’t already, you might give it a try.

    I will be rooting for you.

    #250041
    Anonymous
    Guest

    It just does my head in though, the idea of being stuck like this forever. It isn’t free agency. I’ve tried to deal with it, change it, on however many occasions.

    I suppose it prevents me from becoming more proud/arrogant than I already am, but it sucks.

    Quote:

    I’m curious if you know where you fit on the MBTI matrix. I would suspect that you would fit (as I do) in one of the more rarified slots

    I really don’t. I remember hearing about autistics on a program as a teenager, and thinking that I had some common features with them, but I’m extremely poor with numbers (which I consider a major factor against.) On the flipside, I do have certain intense interests/hobbies, and poor social interaction. I’m skilful at some things, but ridiculously poor at others.

    Quote:

    Have you read The Power of Now?

    No…

    #250042
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Quote:

    It just does my head in though, the idea of being stuck like this forever.

    Sam, one of the reasons I hold onto the concept of a redemption and the way it is framed in Mormonism is that there is a clear statement (at least to me) of bedrock faith that we will not be punished in any way for those things we don’t choose – and that we won’t be “stuck like this forever”. It’s termed as not being punished for Adam’s transgression in the 2nd Article of Faith – and I think it’s instructive that it is the second one on the list – that it’s right after the statement of belief in God and BEFORE the statement about the Atonement of Christ and obedience to laws and ordinances.

    Think seriously about that, please. 1) God; 2) no punishment for those things that simply are a part of mortality that aren’t chosen by us and, therefore, aren’t “sins”; 3) Atonement (by implication, for “sins”) through obedience (by implication, to things we are capable of obeying). That’s a fascinating, compelling, wonderful arrangement, imo.

    I know it might not help much in the exact moment of greatest pain, but, at the very least, for me, it is an amazing concept – that ALL of those things you listed as your obstacles in life will not be held against you in ANY way when all is said and done. Your efforts to change some of them will be rewarded, no matter the degree to which you are (or feel) “successful” when all is said and done. I see that as the core of the “truth (that) shall make you free” – that we are loved for who we are and will be allowed to escape these mortal limitations, not just in the next life, but in this life (when talking about things we can change) AND in the next life (when talking about things that really are beyond our control here in mortality).

    God continue to bless you in your efforts, but, most of all, may you find peace in those efforts and an acceptance of yourself as you are – even as you strive to be more what you want to be. This is one case where I think the statement “well done, thou good and faithful servant” applies perfectly – when “enduring to the end” means something deep and wonderful and inspiring.

    You might like the following post: http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/2011/03/13/a-brief-thought-on-matthew-1128-30/

    #250043
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I know one explanation in Mormon theology is that these kind of things are determined in our pre-existence. I have to admit I’m pretty much an agnostic in terms of the pre-existence, and don’t really believe in it, or indeed reincarnation of any form.

    #250044
    Anonymous
    Guest

    SamBee wrote:

    I know one explanation in Mormon theology is that these kind of things are determined in our pre-existence. I have to admit I’m pretty much an agnostic in terms of the pre-existence, and don’t really believe in it, or indeed reincarnation of any form.


    darn-it. I was just going to give a discourse on what the Bhagavad Gita says about this…

    SamBee, i think that much you said is directly applicable to me in most of my life. I could say that I have some real screw-ups in the social area, and continue to be completely retarded socially and in my ability to interact with others. Oh that I wish it were different.

    But it won’t be different. It’s not fate, per se, but rather, the context with which we are created. There is a set of tendencies we all have, just like water molecules align a certain way, resulting in the emergent beauty of the snowflake, our individuality and tendencies emerge into who we are and how we act. We are all different, yet guided by these unseen tendencies, both good and, well, whatever. This is the Way. As Spong states, “the infinite variety of our humanity.” We have completely different skills and capabilities.

    I will never be a whole lot of things I thought I could be. Yet, within what is me, I can be happy and fulfilled by as Spong also quoting Tillich, “the courage to be.” being in the present means that right this very moment, you have a lot of choices. The gita says you have the “Right” (adhikara, right, freedom, title, or power) to choose the action that is in front of you. Not an infinite set of choices, mind you, but choice enough to say, “Am I going to be authentic and honest with myself here and now, or not?” “can I choose to believe that this moment is an eternal moment, or am I on a death-march?” And maybe not all things are such black and white.

    But right this moment, I’m typing a message to someone I don’t know, with a little tiny bit of hope that I might cheer your day up as a fellow clumsy socially-flawed individual. I don’t know you really at all, but i love what you said, and it connected to me, and now maybe i’m connecting back, but I don’t know. And in just this very act at this moment, with no expectation of the future, but typing these words, I am supremely happy, for I have found the words of comfort that work for me. for the moment.

    Cheers!

    #250045
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I think the Power of Now is a great recommendation, or anything else from Ekhart Tolle. Buddhism seems to inspire me because I can let go of thinking about the pre-existence, foreordination, or the afterlife and what might be. Finding peace now, in this moment, is an important step to happiness.

    Yes, we are all different, we can’t compare ourselves to others, we have our own qualities and situations. And life is not easy on us.

    But one of my greatest experiences in the temple was when I went asking the Lord to help me with all my problems and stresses when I was overwhelmed, and acknowledged all my failures and weaknesses…and I received no answers on anything I prayed about. But I felt a feeling I’ll never forget…a feeling that the Spirit just wanted me to know it is OK. I am OK. Just the way I am. I don’t have to be different. All I remember was…Peace, be still.

    Then I left the temple and returned to my crazy life, with all the problems still to figure out, but it was OK.

    I think there is always noise, and stress, and pain to deal with in life…but it takes effort to stop, and be still. But it is worth the effort.

    Your patterns make you who you are. Some can be changed, with effort to want to progress. I don’t know if all can be, nor should have to be. You are OK the way you are, and have the power to find peace and happiness in small, but important, moments.

    #250046
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Thanks for the comments.

    I went to see a church psychotherapist yesterday in the neighboring city, only to find out that I had turned up a week earlier. Nonetheless I was able to give a friend over (he wanted to looked at record stores over there), and we got to see a beautiful mural being painted by one of the greatest artists in the country.

    All I can say is that I didn’t choose to be many of the ways that I am. No choice, as far as I’m aware, or remember. I don’t choose to be socially awkward (who would), or to be suffering mental turmoil right now. The choice I’ve made is to try and get help for this (again!*), and am clearing out my house, and rewriting my resume. However, I just feel like a pathetic loser when I look at what I’ve done.

    I’ve even tried some alternative/New Age trash as well. I say trash, because I did go to it with an open mind, but it didn’t really do a single thing for me, that I know. NLP, tapping therapy, all of that garbage. Didn’t help. Maybe it works for other people. I hope so.

    Quote:

    Buddhism seems to inspire me because I can let go of thinking about the pre-existence, foreordination, or the afterlife and what might be. Finding peace now, in this moment, is an important step to happiness.

    I have tried Buddhist practices. They’re okay up to a point, but I really feel navel gazing is not what I need right now. I need to be able to deal with other people as much as myself, and it didn’t seem to produce any permanent change in me or my lifestyle.

    I do enjoy Buddhist writings though, and I admit I feel conflicted about reading them with my membership of the church. I see Buddhism as an odd mixture of true religion, Indian culture, speculative philosophy-psychology and some demon worship (especially in Tibetan Buddhism, where Shamanism has penetrated)

    * I sincerely hope this isn’t a waste of my time. I’ve tried counsellors, meditation, forcing myself to wear a persona etc to solve my issues.

    Quote:

    But one of my greatest experiences in the temple was when I went asking the Lord to help me with all my problems and stresses when I was overwhelmed, and acknowledged all my failures and weaknesses…and I received no answers on anything I prayed about. But I felt a feeling I’ll never forget…a feeling that the Spirit just wanted me to know it is OK. I am OK. Just the way I am. I don’t have to be different. All I remember was…Peace, be still.

    I have been praying, and have fasted at least two days this week. The only prompting I’ve received is to send a letter to my cousin who I fell out with sixteen years ago. He’ll be getting a letter soon…

    #250047
    Anonymous
    Guest

    SamBee wrote:

    we got to see a beautiful mural being painted by one of the greatest artists in the country.

    SamBee wrote:

    The only prompting I’ve received is to send a letter to my cousin who I fell out with sixteen years ago. He’ll be getting a letter soon…


    Way cool experiences. :thumbup:

    If you’re a “pathetic loser” like you feel you are sometimes, you’re a pretty interesting, really funny, and caring one [case in point…sending a letter to a cousin you are sure to make their day!]…and the more I get to know you online, the more I admire you’re ability to keep working on things and trying new things with your faith and in your life. You continue to post and add meaningful comments here on this forum that have inspired me and many others.

    Perhaps in the future you’ll see all the things you’ve learned from these experiences have prepared you for something.

    I’m not blowing smoke up places for you just to try to be nice…it is honestly how I see things.

    But I know no matter what I, or any other friends here on StayLDS tell you, you need to find a way to get that peace of who you are and how you fit into the universe. Keep trying to find what works, and feel free to share with us what you find works. I enjoy learning from your posts.

    #250048
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Thanks Heber.

    I sent that letter off to my cousin. We haven’t spoken for sixteen/seventeen years. He helped me out, but we fell out. I have always felt uneasy about claiming to be Christian and not apologising/forgiving.

    I fasted for about forty hours in the end up. I’m eating now, but don’t feel that my prayers are being answered. I’m looking for a genuine new direction in life out of the stagnation.

    On the 21st, it will be the tenth anniversary of the last letter I received from the love of my life. I think of her every day, meaning I must have thought of her about four thousand times since we fell out of contact. She lives in another country. It really hurts, especially with seeing all this Valentine’s day stuff around the shops. It’s funny, I spent more time with other women, slept with them (I never slept with her), got to know them better, spent more time dating etc etc when I was inactive, but I never connected to anyone the way I connected with her. She is such a bittersweet memory to me.

    #250049
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I was endowed on Saturday. Strange experience. I can’t say I feel all warm and glowy, I was more concentrating on getting everything correct. I preferred the baptisms downstairs.

    On Sunday morning, I went and crashed my car. I was unscathed, but it’s going to take time to sort out. I’m supposed to be going back to the temple next week.

    #250050
    Anonymous
    Guest

    SamBee wrote:

    I was endowed on Saturday. Strange experience.

    I am tempted to make a joke here, but I am learning from experience so I will simply say: good for you. I’m sure there is no one appropriate response to the temple endowment, and feeling a little strange about it is well within the norm. I hope you found it a growing experience, at least, and that, if it is something that you feel is meaningful and benefits you, that you will have many opportunities to visit. As you probably know, if the endowment is not necessarily your thing, there are other ordinances (baptism/confirmation, as you pointed out, sealings, and initiatories) that may be.

    Sorry about your car. That’s never a fun thing, but this. too, will pass, and it’s only “stuff”.

    #250051
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Congratulations, Sam. I am very happy for you – and I agree with doug that people experience it differently, especially the first time when most of them probably also are focused on not screwing up in some way and just don’t know how to relax, let the play flow around them and take in whatever hits in the moment. That’s what I love now – what I consider to be the heart of the endowment (the gift aspect I experience fairly regularly now).

    I also am sorry about your car. I hope everything works out on that front, as well.

    #250052
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Sam, I think I was very much preoccupied with the new endowment when I went through before my mission. As I went through more often, I became less concerned with doing things, and more focused on how I felt being there. I will be interested how it is for you as you go back often.

    #250053
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Kong , we’ve corresponded for a long time now , and — I hope this works for you.

    Be true and just find peace. If this is your path, than live it. If not…well…

    God speed friend

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