The Holy Spirit

I’m afraid I dropped a bucket too deep in a shallow well. All apologies.

Sometimes the board moves slow. I have been super busy at work. It was a pretty deep question, to be fair.

If you are looking at those quotes as proof texts that weave together a connected and coherent hidden mystery, I don’t see them that way anymore. What I love about LDS history is our rich, former tradition of theological speculation. I am not attached to all the lines intersecting though. I think we have interesting thinkers to draw from who were all following the spirit of prophecy and personal revelation (personal enlightenment).

That’s just my current view of things in general. So I think each of those quotes are interesting in and of themselves. They can also be used as pigments to combine into paints for making a picture that might be meaningful to us and useful.

Could all of us, collectively, be the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost?

Two responses:

1. I find great significance in the teaching the we are co-eternal and co-existent (of the same stuff) as God on some level of reality (D&C 93:23). This has potentially profound meaning. It goes way beyond standard Christian creeds and established doctrines that posit humans as fundamentally different than God, even at odds with Him, and most importantly that God is not a part of our reality (He sits outside creation as a pure concept, a Platonic ideal).

2. Not only do I sometimes consider that we are all collectively the Holy Ghost, I also sometimes ponder that we are all actually God — either ego fragments of God’s conscious essence choosing to experiencing a story, or that we are all gods with distinct egos who collectively form a shared consciousness that becomes like a separate entity (Elohim, the leader of a shared council of gods, the God of gods). We might be God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost. Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, Ye are gods?'” (John 10:34)

I am not attached to either of those being true in the sense that we talk about knowing so much in our culture. I just find those interesting and valuable perspectives to ponder. To me, that perspective suddenly and dramatically resolves a TON of problems in scripture and theology.

Is that well deep enough for the bucket? 😆 Or is there so much rope attached to the bucket that we run the risk of getting tangled up in the slack and hanging ourselves before it hits the bottom?

There are times I consider how we all have the Light of Christ within us, and as I study to understand that Light of Christ, it does not differ so much from the Holy Spirit, in my mind.

Having that all within us, and all of us collectively being the Holy Spirit, are not the same things in my mind.

I could see how decades of study on the topic can lead to several ideas, but I’m not sure we really know much about the 3rd member of the Godhead. It is the most mysterious member of the group. As a ghost has less form to us, it seems we have less knowledge about this Holy Ghost, as we see through a glass darkly. We seem to be left to just know it by its purpose, moreso than actual characteristics of it.

I have often thought how Mormons mention other religions have a God that is everywhere and nowhere, without form, and believe our knowledge of HF and JC helps us be more sure in our faith, and yet then turn around to be content with describing the 3rd member of the Godhead with similar descriptors and mystery without pause. (We like to be different, but sometimes are not as different as we think).

I tend to be able to wrap my head around the HG being a spirit of a man, with power to enlighten minds and hearts…basically, the general teaching from the church, because it works for me. But I am open to considering other possibilities, because, like I said, I don’t think we really know as much about it as we think sometimes.

Sambee, I suppose in a sense that would be the case. The other comment about a God without “parts, passions, etc.” reminded me a lot of the pre 1990 Temple ceremony. That was not what I meant by the question.

In looking at the quotes and scriptures, I was trying to find where I fit in, and that’s pretty much where it led me – at least for the time being. Until I receive further revelation on the subject, I’m satisfied for the time being – but always in search of further light and knowledge.

That is a good – and complex – question. D&C 93:2,9; indicates that Christ is the true light which is in all of us. Vs. 23; We were also “in the beginning” and are “the Spirit of truth.” Vs. 29; In fact, what we are cannot be made – we have always existed. D&C 88:49, 50 also says: “The light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not; nevertheless, the day shall come when you shall comprehend even God, being quickened in him and by him. Then shall ye know that ye have seen me, that I am, and that I am the true light that is in you, and that you are in me; otherwise ye could not abound.” We will know that WE HAVE SEEN CHRIST because he is IN US. These scriptures, (just to quote a few), seem to indicate both a divinity and eternal nature of man. If you take this and add it to the other quotes I originally furnished it gives you pause to consider something of great importance.

Separating out “the light of Christ”, with the ‘divine nature’ inherent in all of us is quite difficult. I see all things that are eternal and unchangeable as absolute truth. (This would be different than say, “the Aaronic Priesthood – which ends.) Do you see a clearly defined difference in scripture?

I like your computer analogy, Arwen. The only difference with what I proposed, is that the HG actually IS all of us and we are all the lan lines to others. i.e. angels – messengers. Since I believe God is in ALL of us, (angels, as well), I think we are already “in tune” with the main frame without an going through another being. That all of us, collectively – might in fact be that being.

It’s something fairly heady to consider and I hope it’s not interpreted as blasphemous. It might be the reason that so little is written and understood about the H.G.?

I think people’s decisions definitely affect whether they can experience the light or not. Some people shut it out or ignore it.

The problem is that people in general are incredibly corrupted. In my experience, they will say nice things, and do the opposite. History is littered with the corpses of people killed for supposedly good causes.

Seriously, if you guys haven’t read Carl Jung, you should.

http://www.weird-encyclopedia.com/collective-unconscious.php

There are various different conceptions of what the collective unconscious might be. One of the interpretations one hears less, is that it is not a psychic or even much of a psychological phenomenon, but is actually an overarching cultural framework.