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I have had a couple of experiences that keep me grounded in the faith. I went through a discovery period 4 or 5 years ago, when I learned of some doctorines I had not heard about before. Doing some research, I ended up having at trial of faith/loss of faith. However, I realized a couple of things have happened to me that I cannot explain, but which are very real. I’ve reviewed the journal entry I wrote many times, because it was so profound. When I was released from my mission, I chatted with the Stake President in his basement family room while my parents and his wife visited upstairs. Small talked for a few minutes, asked me how things went, and then it was time for the formal release. He declared his authority and, “I hereby release you as a missionary.. and as I say these words, you may feel something slip away…”
and WHOOOOOOOSH! It was like a wind or rushing water — something physical, spiritual, I don’t know what, LEFT. My vision blurred slightly, his voice became quieter as my hearing went dimmer. Even in my frame, I felt a physical weightiness I had not felt before. It was as if whatever that was that left, was not only giving me spiritual strength, but real physical strength and ability (sharper vision, hearing) as well. Again, I do not know what that is. The “mantle”? What is that mantle? Is it the Holy Ghost? Is it angels who have been helping?
I sat there and bawled for 5 minutes, trying to regain composure. He had seen many missionaries released, and talked about how he could tell “who the good ones were” when they were released. Not that I was a “good missionary” — I was a normal kid like any other missionary. I struggled with things, did my best, sometimes failed and sometimes did good things. He never explained what that was, other than the “mantle being lifted” — he may not know any more than that, either..
I shared the experience with my parents upstairs when we re-joined them, and we talked for a few minutes as a group. I was still crying on the way home — not from the fact “I’d lost something”, but because it was such a profound experience. Like being shaken by an angel.
It was a REAL physical experience/change that happened just as he said those words to release me. Others may have experienced the same with him, why else did he say, “as I say these words, you may feel something slip away..?”
At any rate, it is something I KNOW happened. Just like Joseph Smith said he couldn’t deny what happened to him, as it was very real to him, I can not deny this either. Even as I struggled with early church history issues a few years back, I still could not explain what it was that happened to me. But I know it was something that was good that was helping me, and giving me real physical strength. And it left when I was released. Maybe the reason I experienced it was to help me believe? To be an anchor for me?
I still have struggles in life. Testimony, sin, whatever I might go through, I have still found that there is something real in all this. It’s nowhere near perfect. We have bad leaders sometimes, dumb leaders that say dumb things. I think even the prophets are going to have to answer for some of the dumb stuff they taught which wasn’t true. But I hang onto that little anchor I have, through all the struggles of faith I’ve had.
Anyone able to explain what this was that left?
I believe you really felt this. I felt the loss of something similar in one of my callings. I have always thought it was an extra increase of the Holy Ghost during that time of being set apart for that specific calling. hrc wrote:Anyone able to explain what this was that left?
Nope, sorry. Can’t explain it either. When my SP said “I release you as a missionary” it was more of a turning of my stomach – hardly a spiritual experience like you had. I was a good missionary, wasn’t always the most effective, but I worked hard, did my best and all.
I have had, however, a very powerful experience like you had. When I was 14 years old and studying Moroni in seminary, I tried the promise and had a VERY strong burning in the bosom. Very peaceful yet excited, warm and very strong. Undeniable really. I went on to do all the crazy stuff that crazy teenagers do, and did a complete 180 when I decided to serve a mission. I’ve had meaningful spiritual experiences since then, but not like the one when I was 14. So I think about that at times, and I feel like it’s anchored me too – that and other reasons of course.
This sounds a lot like my own Book of Mormon experience as well. When I prayed about it, I was extremely cynical and atheist, but my experience was undeniable. My mother also had a similar experience when she was confirmed a member (she was an adult convert). She said it felt like an electric current ran through her body which was a huge contrast to her experience as a Lutheran when they said the kids had received the Holy Spirit. Don’t know that I’d even try to explain another’s experience but I can say that my own spiritual experiences have also been undeniable and are what kept me from completely losing faith in God and the gospel. As I read through the comments above, a question came to mind, though. I’ve spoken to many former members, some who now fight against the church and others who simply disregard it as nonsense, and most say they never had any spiritual experiences. Often they’ve said they did not receive a confirmation of the BOM after sincerely putting “Moroni’s promise” to the test. A few say they did have spiritual experiences but now believe them to be nothing more than their own brains responding to their desires for spiritual manifestations and generating a faith confirming experience.
So the question that came to mind is whether those of us who stay/want to stay are the ones who acknowledge having spiritual experiences while those who leave are individuals who did not have undeniable witnesses.
Has anyone here known someone who openly shares that he/she had powerful confirming and undeniable spiritual experiences related to the church/gospel and left anyway?
Sorry for the derail, HRC, my curious mind never turns off…
mercyngrace wrote:So the question that came to mind is whether those of us who stay/want to stay are the ones who acknowledge having spiritual experiences while those who leave are individuals who did not have undeniable witnesses.
Has anyone here known someone who openly shares that he/she had powerful confirming and undeniable spiritual experiences related to the church/gospel and left anyway?
I have had powerful confirming and undeniable spiritual experiences related to the church/gospel.I have also have powerful confirming and undeniable spiritual experiences about the fact that other people in all other faiths have had powerful confirming and undeniable spiritual experiences about their faith as well. I have come to understand with some degree of certainty, through study, experience, and personal spiritual experience that the spirit is much more universal than we LDS make it out to be.
I have also had powerful (same words) spiritual experiences that the church’s position on a number of issues is dead wrong and evil (Deception over a host of issues, 14F, Women/ERA and Prop8). This puts my spiritual experience that the church has spiritual value in a difficult position with respect to my equally valid spiritual experience that sitting idle in the face of gross injustice is morally wrong.
So, no, I haven’t left. I stayLDS because of family and it’s my tribe. I survive in staying by finding in many of the beliefs of the church great spiritual value, and I anchor on these, while setting aside the benign myths. Yet, at this point, I find that staying LDS is untenable as long as the church adopts a position of lying about the past, holding to the infallibility of the prophets, and harming people through its political positions on women/ERA and on gays/Prop8 — the church’s position on these items literally hits home to me. At this point, I stayLDS because of the love I have for my TBMDW, and I am deluded that I might have a positive influence on those, too, who suffer this inherent dichotomy.
for this I remain a wayfaring fool.
I too, had a validation/confirmation when doing Moroni’s promise back my junior year in High School. Again, another undeniable anchor for me. I had a dream at a very young age that also is interesting to think about now that I am older. I still remember that dream like it happened yesterday, that I can relate if others have interest.
Wayfarer, Thanks for your comments. I’ve wondered before what role spiritual experiences play in keeping members in or enabling members out of the church. I personally believe that we can be led along very circuitous routes based upon what we need to learn and experience and where we can find the healing we need. For some people, the LDS community is not a safe, healing place and can interfere with a relationship with God. Given the relationship one has with any church or institution, that can be said of any community, I suppose.
Like you, I don’t limit revelation or spiritual experiences to Mormons. I have felt the spirit and received revelation outside of the LDS context and been with others, non-LDS, non-Christian, and non-believing, who have experienced the same. Also, like you, I see flaws in the institution of the church but my expectations and understanding of the purpose of the church has changed dramatically in the last decade so I am not bothered by the flaws like I once was (most of the time).
It was interesting to me to renew my TR this week and to listen to the strict wording of the questions. I found myself confidently answering yes, not because I think the church is perfect but because I recognize how imperfect it actually is. I almost laughed out loud during the interview with the stake presidency member because I suddenly caught a glimpse of how much wider the door to the temple is than I used to believe. That’s all fodder for another thread, though.
A lot of people have these experiences. They’re not uncommon, but they are unusual. How to explain them? I can’t at least not all the time. I think sometimes we confuse emotion with the Spirit, but that doesn’t explain what you experienced.
wayfarer wrote:I have had powerful confirming and undeniable spiritual experiences related to the church/gospel.
I have also have powerful confirming and undeniable spiritual experiences about the fact that other people in all other faiths have had powerful confirming and undeniable spiritual experiences about their faith as well. I have come to understand with some degree of certainty, through study, experience, and personal spiritual experience that the spirit is much more universal than we LDS make it out to be.
I have also had powerful (same words) spiritual experiences that the church’s position on a number of issues is dead wrong and evil (Deception over a host of issues, 14F, Women/ERA and Prop8). This puts my spiritual experience that the church has spiritual value in a difficult position with respect to my equally valid spiritual experience that sitting idle in the face of gross injustice is morally wrong.
So, no, I haven’t left. I stayLDS because of family and it’s my tribe. I survive in staying by finding in many of the beliefs of the church great spiritual value, and I anchor on these, while setting aside the benign myths. Yet, at this point, I find that staying LDS is untenable as long as the church adopts a position of lying about the past, holding to the infallibility of the prophets, and harming people through its political positions on women/ERA and on gays/Prop8 — the church’s position on these items literally hits home to me. At this point, I stayLDS because of the love I have for my TBMDW, and I am deluded that I might have a positive influence on those, too, who suffer this inherent dichotomy.
for this I remain a wayfaring fool.
I agree & can relate.What keeps me grounded or rather uplifted
🙂 … changes, with how I’m learning spiritually.Hrc,
I believe you had a profound spiritual experience.
I believe such experiences cannot be logically explained completely.
But the closest I’d come, is to say that I believe every action we do (good or bad) attracts equivalent spiritual aid.
Belief is powerful! We are more able to tap into such spiritual help if we believe in it.
Also, if you believe strongly that when being released from your mission, you will as you mission pres. suggested, “feel something slip away” – then you will & you did!
Yet, you still have help around you, just your focus, faith & pursuits are different from your mission, so your spiritual help is now different.
I remember when I was dating my DH, before we got married, I felt like there was a spiritual battle going on… & there was. I was torn between marrying him or not, I believe, a reflection of or being reflected by spiritual energies battling it out. I’ve often wondered if it were my spunky children (as spirits) being the brave warriors they are!
🙂 These spiritual experiences are awfully tough things. I won’t deny having felt such things myself multiple times over my life, including before I converted to LDS. I know they happen and I don’t deny they are of God. I’ve also come to see that such experiences happen to many in other faiths as well. I don’t think Joseph Smith would have said spirtual experiences are limited to LDS, but who knows on that obviously. But it certainly does raise the question of how do you go about deciding what out there is true. I’m confortable for myself that there is lots of truth, even unique truth, in the LDS Church. And I know the foundation that keeps me accepting that when I’m incredibly challenged by thing our leaders say are those spiritual experiences.
hrc wrote:….able to explain what this was that left?
No.
mercyngrace wrote:…Has anyone here known someone who openly shares that he/she had powerful confirming and undeniable spiritual experiences related to the church/gospel and left anyway?…
Yes. Me.
The same spiritthat told me the church was true for years… eventually told me that the church was not TRUE, BUT that I was not to leave the church at that time (I wrote about this on stayLDS in some thread.) And then later, that same spirit told me to take my family and walk away from the LDS church. I listened and found peace.
CW, I think the short answer is that some parts of the church are true, but others certainly are not. At a basic practical level, it is a good thing when we help each other out (I was decorating a member’s house at the weekend), but the white shirt thing is a nonsense, IMHO. To cwald’s point I think personal revelation is for personal situations. I also feel I have listened to the spirit which told me during troubled times that I would be able to find peace again within the church, and I have. It is not always an easy path, but for me it is a rewarding path of growth, it is my home. Sometimes there are situations that make leaving home the best option for some individuals, but other times the situations can be worked through for the benefit of all involved.
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