Keeping a marriage working with a TBM spouse

About 9 months. We have worked through a lot in that time, but still have a ways to go. Our current status is basically to not talk about it but have a mutual respect that we can believe what we want to believe.

I want to echo Doug’s counsel:

Let her be herself. Love her for who she is. Be the spouse to her that you want her to be to you.

What works for each person works for each person. Remember that, and don’t challenge what works for her – ever.

I’m one of those odd ducks who has the same basic problem, but with the faith spectrum polarity reversed. My DW left the church, and I decided to stay (on some level of activity and connection). We run into the same relationship problems though. We’ve been working on it for 5 years now … so I don’t know if that is encouraging or not. We’re still together. I think our marriage improved in a lot of ways after we both dropped the act of filling archetypal roles. Fortunately, we found out we really like each other beyond just checking the Mormon religious checkbox: married in temple? Yes. Check. You may proceed to the CK.

[*]My wife feeling like I have “changed the deal” and have let her down.

Well … you did change the deal. My DW radically changed the deal. We’d been married for 16 years at that point, had 6 children, and she had wanted to be a SAHM while I worked — All. Turned. Upside. Down.

The best recommendation I have is to show extra love and attention, and show that you are still the same person. You are just following your conscience and following the “truth” you find. That is very Mormon-y in a way.

[*]My wife feeling insecure that now I don’t have God forcing me to stay married to her, that I am going to abandon her.

This is a VERY VERY common feeling, even a little more common among women (just my observation). But really, God wasn’t forcing you to stay with her and the kids before. That has not changed. Just make sure to reassure her as best you can. Be extra sensitive to the needs of your family. Show a lot of love and attention. Heck, that isn’t all bad. You might end up a better husband than before! Over time, this seems to fade. Proof is in the actions.

[*]My wife attempting to claim the “moral high ground” where she is the righteous right one and I am the sinner vs. having differing beliefs that we both respect

Don’t buy into that, but be patient. Constantly remind her you are doing exactly what you were raised to do — search for truth. You are doing what you believe is right, and HF has to be understanding. Try very hard not to express yourself in absolutes and certitudes. Out of kindness, use language of ambiguity and hope. Try to be more agnostic and leave room for hope.

Examples:

“I don’t know if it is all true. If God wants to help me out, or he shows me it’s all true when I die and see Him, I am happy with that.”

“I don’t know for sure, but I am open to possible solutions.”

“There are things I have found that are upsetting. I can help that. It’s just how they are. I hope there are good answers someday.”

[*]Avoiding having discussions in a way that puts either of us on the defensive. Especially avoiding putting her on the defensive.

Very very wise. I have seen this time and time again: The more you push and pressure on issues, the more the other person digs in their feet.

[*]Dealing with how to navigate raising or children with different beliefs.

Never really found a perfect, simple answer for this yet. It just depends a lot on how you decide to negotiate it. I strongly disagree with people who insist their children will be damaged by participating. As a doubting, nuanced parent, you have FAR more influence for the good on your children if you have open discussions and listen to them than any Primary teacher has for a few minutes each week. Step in and be proactive. Talk about our narratives openly and let the children tell YOU how they like to process the stories and make meaning. Make sure they understand that adults at church are not perfect, and your children do not have to accept everything an adult says as true. They should figure that out for themselves.

[*]Curbing my desire to convince her that the church isn’t true, especially when she doesn’t want to consider it. Respecting her and her right to continue to believe.

There is so much in this last statement. You have to come to terms with the fact this is not something you share with your wife the same anymore. People change over time. Marriages change over time. Those that adapt can certainly survive and thrive. Let go of the need for others to validate everything to make you feel whole. Harder said than done, I admit.

Show and express your love for her.

Don’t deliberately antagonize her. Some examples:

If you’ve been to the temple and wearing garments are important to her then wear your garments unless it really causes severe internal conflict. It it does then work it out.

If you following the Word of Wisdom is important to her then follow the Word of Wisdom.

Go to church with her, at least sacrament meeting.

Avoid conflict.

Find friends outside of church that you both can be friends with and that threaten her.

Talk about things. If the discussion gets heated then back away.

Don’t try to change her. Let her change herself.

I just finished reading a great book, The Righteous Mind, by Jonathan Haidt. I recommend it to anyone who wants to understand why we are convinced we are right and others are wrong and how people draw their moral conclusions. It’s pretty fascinating.

Sounds like you’ve got a pretty good strategy with your marriage, and already some great advice. I think the most important thing for people to remember is that their marriage should come first. That’s the core teaching of the church, but culturally people forget it when it’s convenient. Family comes before church. I’ve heard it said repeatedly throughout my lifetime in the church.

My wife feeling like I have “changed the deal” and have let her down.

If marriage only lasted a year or two, we might have some sort of guarantee that our spouse wouldn’t change significantly. The issue is that in marriage we are accustomed to our spouse changing to become more like us, not in ways that make our spouse different from us. But life is long, and people do in fact change. I also think that the younger we are when we marry the more likely there will be significant changes in personality and views during our married life. If you don’t want your spouse to change, don’t marry a human being. Marry a lamp or a chair.

My wife feeling insecure that now I don’t have God forcing me to stay married to her, that I am going to abandon her.

That’s an interesting one. I think you’re doing the right thing – and that your point about archetypal roles is spot on. You only staying married out of a sense of duty is not much foundation at all, IMO. It may work in a Merchant-Ivory film, but it’s a bit tough to slog through for 65 years in real life. When someone feels insecure, the important thing is to reassure her of your love for her and commitment to her.

My wife attempting to claim the “moral high ground” where she is the righteous right one and I am the sinner vs. having differing beliefs that we both respect

Here’s one aspect that is tough to this. You are both acting on your beliefs in integrity. But you have two different sets of conclusions. It’s like political differences. You can both want good things, but conclude there are different ways to achieve them. You are both sensitive to different moral concerns. I really do recommend that book. It’s got some great points on this topic.

Avoiding having discussions in a way that puts either of us on the defensive. Especially avoiding putting her on the defensive.

This is always good advice. It’s important to respect that you both have moral views, and you just disagree about prioritization of the same.

Dealing with how to navigate raising or children with different beliefs.

Look, even if you are both TBM, your kids will have their own beliefs. Parents often overestimate their ability to control this and underestimate how they influence this. Take Jana Reiss as an example – her parents were atheists, and she was fascinated by religion, ultimately joining the LDS church. My parents were both raised in mostly indifferent religious households and they also ultimately joined the church. People raised in staunch TBM households decide it’s too stifling or that they question the black & white thinking. There are many combinations. I do think that while people draw different conclusions, some tendencies like being open to new ideas or being a questioning person, are partly genetic.

Curbing my desire to convince her that the church isn’t true, especially when she doesn’t want to consider it. Respecting her and her right to continue to believe.

The only way to influence someone else is to be open to being influenced by them as well. You have to make the first step. Given that you are pretty convinced you are right, that’s going to shut down this possibility quite a bit.

Parents often overestimate their ability to control this and underestimate how they influence this.

So what you are saying is that having influence is a near certainty, but that one has little to no control over how that influence will affect a given outcome? Interesting :ugeek: