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I’ve been lurking for a long time, but figured I’d finally introduce myself. I see there are lots of new folks lately. I am a very active member of the LDS church, but my beliefs are a bit unorthodox. I became aware of this site through Brian, through his posting about it at the Faces East site. I also post there.
Ironically, I am the “believing spouse” in a marriage where my husband does not believe in the church, or even God, and has not attended with me in 9 years. I was always the one to hold strong with my faith, even as he underwent his own crisis of faith.
The crazy thing is, I know all the reasons my husband lost his faith. But he has not tried to talk me out of my faith. He has been supportive of my involvement in the church, even though he personally is not interested. Sure we’ve talked and I am aware of the issues. But I really came to my faith crisis myself. My husband is so disengaged from the church that he honestly doesn’t care. He doesn’t spend a lot of time thinking about faith or the church, and is perfectly content that way. Whereas, I could never be. It is my heart and soul. Not believing would be a terribly painful tragedy for me. I cannot let it go. It is so important for me to find a way to hang on. I’ve had too many experiences with the spirit to discount it all. And the church is part of my identity.
Yet I can’t have that simple faith anymore. There is so much I struggle to believe. I go to church and feel like I am standing outside looking in, as someone described. I want to get to a mature “stage 5” faith, but don’t know if that’s possible. Right now it just hurts. I feel scared.
Learning painful things about church history didn’t destroy my faith. Reading websites by disaffected folks didn’t do it either. I can deal with fallible leaders, dishonesty and judgment in members, gender issues that I think are mixed up, etc. I was at BYU during all the excommunications in the 90s, and knew very well some of rhe teachers who were fired. I’ve seen church leaders do all the wrong things and cause tremendous pain to family members. None of that had shaken my faith.
What caused my greatest faith challenge has been my experience with the spirit. I learned at church to listen to and trust the Holy Ghost. Yet my listening to the Holy Ghost is what has been so hard. I have prayed about my husband’s lack of belief for years, and it was a deep concern to me. And what I learned through the spirit was that all is ok. It doesn’t matter. We can be an eternal family through our deep love, no matter what choices he makes regarding the LDS church.
But if I trust the answer I got as I prayed, how do I make sense of it? If it doesn’t really matter, why are all the rules and ordinances so important? I dealt with my husband’s disaffection by becoming much more “universalist” in my approach. I was lead to understand that there are many ways to God, God speaks to all people in their own way, etc. And if that’s true, what do we make of all the “one and only true church” claims? I just don’t buy it anymore.
And once you discover that there are many paths to God, you start to wonder why your path is any better than the others (other than being familiar). And then all the problems and inconsistencies seem a lot more plausible, once you accept that. Suddenly the shelf gets too heavy.
So that’s where I am. Hanging on and learning from all of you. Thanks for your kindness. Thanks for the wisdom I’ve learned from you already (in my last 6 mo lurking). Sorry so long.
Thankful, I appreciate your introduction. You obviously put alot of heart into it. The thing that especially touched me was when you said:
Quote:Right now it just hurts. I feel scared.
Many of us have felt the same way. Many of us have come through it intact. Many of us are still going through it.I for one am still going through it. One thing I’ve discovered is: it gets better over time.
It gets better when you share your hope, strengths & fears with others that understand.
You are in a good (& safe) place.
We want to hear more from you.
Mike from Milton.
Welcome. Quote:We can be an eternal family through our deep love, no matter what choices he makes regarding the LDS church.
I believe that passionately, and I’ve written about it on my own blog. However, have you ever thought of the following?
Maybe the exclusive truth claims of an organization are less important in some ways than the simple idea of glorious concepts like the eternal sealing of God’s family and of loving relationships and of two people joined and SEALED unbreakably as one.
In a very real way, your statement above about being an eternal family AND your epiphany about it extending beyond just the constraints of the LDS Church BOTH are a direct result of your exposure to uniquely Mormon teachings. Maybe the messy details of our human adaptations of divine beauty as we muddle in the middle of mortality are OK specifically because we can latch onto whatever doctrinal North Star shines the most beautifully for us individually.
Sincere question:
Do you think you would feel as passionately about being able to be sealed etrenally as one with your husband without your Mormon foundation?
It’s hard, and sometimes impossible, for someone who has seen the “far blue mountains” to descirbe them adequately to others who have lived their entire lives in a city or on a vast, unchanging plain. Some things, some times, only can be kept and pondered in our hearts.
Welcome Thankful, I myself had a goal that before I would introduce myself, I would read everyone else’s introductions – that took me a while. So no worries on the 6 months of lurking.
I think that I found myself in a similar situation to you. Let me explain. Several years ago our daughter, Emory, was stillborn. In the midst of my grief I discovered that the church doesn’t know what to do with children who are not live births and no temple ordinances (including sealing to parents) are performed in their behalf. I knew that she would be part of our family eternally but the sealing ordinance didn’t apply. It was a very weird place to find myself. When the church’s official stance was essentially, “we don’t know” I had to follow and
trustin the spirit for answers and peace to the questions that plagued me. Thankful wrote:what I learned through the spirit was that all is ok. It doesn’t matter. We can be an eternal family through our deep love, no matter what choices he makes regarding the LDS church.
Although it may shake things up, I believe that this message is a wonderful example of God’s tender mercies – a reminder that both you
andyour husband are still encircled about by the arms of His love. It is beautiful. So then why do we go through all the unnecessary junk in the church (I’ll leave it to you to decide what and how much is unnecessary [i.e. not strictly required for salvation])? I like to think of the schoolmaster of the law in the Old Testament. Maybe God hides his truth in the processes, rites, rituals, and doctrines of the church like a parent grinding up green beans into cake to make it more palatable for the intended audience.
Remember that stage 1 and 2 come before stage 3. These former stages are developmental and important for most people to have as milk before meat. Maybe these later steps (post stage 3) are part of a personal journey – a leap of faith that one takes more or less alone guided only by the light of the Comforter. It can be a scary and lonely road, but I believe that it will grow you into a more complete and whole version of the uniquely divine daughter that you are.
I hope this site may be of use to you on your journey,
Roy
Thankful wrote:What caused my greatest faith challenge has been my experience with the spirit. I learned at church to listen to and trust the Holy Ghost. Yet my listening to the Holy Ghost is what has been so hard. I have prayed about my husband’s lack of belief for years, and it was a deep concern to me. And what I learned through the spirit was that all is ok. It doesn’t matter. We can be an eternal family through our deep love, no matter what choices he makes regarding the LDS church.
But if I trust the answer I got as I prayed, how do I make sense of it? If it doesn’t really matter, why are all the rules and ordinances so important? I dealt with my husband’s disaffection by becoming much more “universalist” in my approach. I was lead to understand that there are many ways to God, God speaks to all people in their own way, etc. And if that’s true, what do we make of all the “one and only true church” claims? I just don’t buy it anymore.
I really identify with this part of your story.
In my personal experience, I kind of started to find that although i still believe the church is true…it is the scaffolding to the truth…not the truth itself. It is not literally true the way it is expressed on Sundays. It is pointing us to find truth for ourselves, helping us with tools and frameworks…but those are not the truth itself.
I have found some things about prayer did not come literally true the way I was taught my whole life it would, and so it started me on a journey to find out what I can really believe and what I can’t anymore.
I personally feel like God wants me to learn some things that I couldn’t when I was in my Stage 3 condition. I NEEDED to break out and really find what I truly believe.
I honestly feel I can believe in the Church and be active, but for different reasons now (none of which are dishonest or fake reasons). It does not mean the church is all bad or false. And it has helped me be more compassionate to my family members and kids. I feel I have grown. And I feel my bishop or others watching me from where I was don’t understand me at all, they fear I have fallen away…because I guess from where they are I have veered off, and they do not understand me. Sometimes I feel like I’m on my own, to navigate things differently when the “story” taught to me at church didn’t hold up to my personal experiences or rational thinking. But I’ve learned so many other “stories” that are really beautiful and meaningful for me. So it is painful, sometimes lonely, but good for me, which is why the Lord doesn’t answer any of my prayers with info I want…only answers me with feelings that “Its OK” and “I’m OK”. I’ve tried to learn to let go of fear, and just be still and know God is there, even if He doesn’t feel the need to intervene in my life. That has been some of my experiences.
Glad you’re here. I look forward to learning more from your posts.
Hi Thankful! :wave: Glad you decided to jump in!Welcome! love your story! You have a very cool husband. He’s right where he should be. And your spiritual premonition about him is right on as well.
I think the most important thing you can do is learn to listen to the spirit, and recognize where our spiritual thoughts originate.
cheers!
Welcome to the site. I guess by now you know there is an July Ensign article written JUST FOR YOU. I didn’t see it mentioned in the other responses, but maybe I missed it.
http://www.lds.org/ensign/2012/07/when-he-stopped-believing?lang=eng ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.lds.org/ensign/2012/07/when-he-stopped-believing?lang=eng Good luck with this. Oh, are you familar with the Faces East website?
Hi Thankful, Nice to see you here too. Welcome to the community.
Thankful wrote:And what I learned through the spirit was that all is ok. It doesn’t matter. We can be an eternal family through our deep love, no matter what choices he makes regarding the LDS church…
What do you do? I say: keep listening to the Spirit. If it bears all the fruits of the Spirit, then keep going with it. How do you make that jive with the rest of the Mormon narrative (as you understand it)? I could tell you a whole bunch of possibilities, but those would be my answers not yours. You’ll find something that works. Or maybe your faith will change. That’s what is supposed to happen in our spiritual growth, our eternal progress — change, not stagnation.
I think there are reconciliations, but they don’t tend to keep the ideas of infallible leadership or one-and-only-true church with no errors intact. Some of the variables in the equation have to change. I still find Mormonism inspiring and fascinating, but I don’t hold an attachment to it being the end of the answers.
Thankful wrote:Not believing would be a terribly painful tragedy for me. I cannot let it go. It is so important for me to find a way to hang on. I’ve had too many experiences with the spirit to discount it all. And the church is part of my identity.
I hear ya. A few weeks ago, I let loose a bit with my wife. Quite passionately, I said “With all the stuff Brigham Young said, there is no way he could have been a prophet. And the Church changes according to the trends of the world – it is just 20 or so years behind. Why can’t the Gospel be simpler? Why does all that crap get in the way?” I voiced some other concerns (I can’t’ really remember it all), and my wife was upset and crying. She said “So what are you going to do? Do you want to leave the church?” I said “No, I love the church. I just want it to be simple again.”Thankful wrote:Yet I can’t have that simple faith anymore.
That actually sounds like someone saying “I just can’t love again” after breaking up with a boy/girlfriend. But they can!
Thankful wrote:What caused my greatest faith challenge has been my experience with the spirit. I learned at church to listen to and trust the Holy Ghost. Yet my listening to the Holy Ghost is what has been so hard. I have prayed about my husband’s lack of belief for years, and it was a deep concern to me. And what I learned through the spirit was that all is ok. It doesn’t matter. We can be an eternal family through our deep love, no matter what choices he makes regarding the LDS church.
But if I trust the answer I got as I prayed, how do I make sense of it? If it doesn’t really matter, why are all the rules and ordinances so important?
Though there may not be an answer now, I bet you will understand someday.
Shawn wrote:Though there may not be an answer now, I bet you will understand someday.
This is wise advice. I think it is why it is good to go slow and not make any hasty decisions. Over time, perhaps the answers come in more meaningful ways, especially as emotions temper.
Thank you everyone for your kindness, warm welcome, and wise advice. I read all that you wrote and I’m pondering it. It is good to feel others “get” you. Thanks so much. And yes, I agree that my husband is pretty awesome.
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