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This is from another thread, but I thought it should be a discussion: Old-Timer wrote:Quote:
Is this site more about the “Way” or staying LDS?
Both – for those who are struggling mightily, the former being a manner of accomplishing the latter. Notice, we continually write of a “way” in lower case lettering – except when referring specifically to a proper noun of that terminology. We speak of finding a way, not “THE WAY” – except when talking of a concept (as with the case of Confucius) or an entity (in the case of Jesus of Nazareth).To be more direct and relevant explicitly to your question, Jesus is the way, the truth and the light – and finding a way to have a meaningful understanding of and relationship with God, the Father, and God, the Son (of connecting to THAT “Way”) is the heart of it all. Separating that Way from the institution of the Church – then using a new connection to that Way to stay LDS in a personally meaningful manner – that is what this site is about. It’s about “being” Gospel-centered and using that paradigm to deal with the cultural stuff of the Church constructively. It’s about finding balance while being pulled by extremes – finding “a way” within a community, rather than walking “the way” as constructed by someone else.
So, ideally, it is about both simultaneously.
I think Ray’s response is exactly on point. I may be causing confusion by using the term Way as I do, because as a wayfarer, the Way is so critical to me, so I thought it might be helpful to clarify my use and some terms here.To me, simply put,
the Wayis the living in harmony with the power of God in the name of Jesus Christ — it’s the Way things work when they are in harmony with the eternal principle. Jesus said, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life”. When I say “Way”, I’m referring to this core, eternal principle. It is not a movement. It is not a set of doctrine. It is a label to refer to how god, jesus, and all other things work harmoniously together. You might call it ‘god’s will’ if that helps. When we’re on the Way, we’re doing the right thing. When I use the term “
Middle Way”, it is the discipline, any discipline, that helps us achieve truth and balance in our lives. The Middle Way is also not a movement, a religion, or an anti-position at all. The Middle Way is patterned after the way (notice lower case here) that Confucius described in the “Doctrine of the Mean”: the “Mean” or “Middle Way” is one where the extremes of emotion are set aside to achieve balance, and then one can look at the issues of life more objectively. The Middle Way is non-polemic: it finds truth in all things and finds the common, middle ground between positions. The Middle Way does not deal with past issues or the future, recognizing that we are in the middle of our eternal lives, it focuses on the present. So the discipline can be summarized as
Being emotionally centered. This may require discipline and perhaps mediation and prayer to settle the emotions, and from there, reaching out in harmony to others.
Being intellectually centered. This finds the middle ground of truth, all truth, and allows respectful meaningful dialog between polar positions. It means harmony and respect, and completely avoids polemic debate as a means to getting truth.
Being Centered in the present. This recognizes that life is from everlasting to everlasting, and the only bit of control we have is over our thoughts and actions in the present. I cannot stress enough that the Middle Way is not a movement or religion. It is simply a discipline. Confucius was a devout religious man, but refused to talk about his religious beliefs in his writings, because the focus of his writings was to help people live the authentic life, irrespective of their faith status. To Confucius, the Middle Way is simply about truth, balance, and harmony. I do not personally believe there is a single best way to Stay LDS — there are many
ways to Stay LDS. To me, a very good way to Stay LDS is to find an authentic path that works for me. My way (lower case) is to be open and balanced, while living in basic harmony with the church and its teachings, provided that what it teaches is ‘true’. That’s where I’ve landed for now. I am an active LDS, with some specific caveats where I find the church’s current position on some things to be out of harmony with ‘truth’ – I think I’ve been clear on what those are. For me, the Middle Way works best, for others they may revert to a state of full “True Believing Mormon” status. Others may find their way out of the church to something else. It may not be important what we call it. Those that are True Believers who are not willing to explore the possibility that truth may come from outside the canon texts of the church may find this site to be more open than they would prefer. Those that leave the church, without judging or being anti- in any way, may still find this site to be a bit more believing than they would prefer. While I think that makes the Middle Way a bit more compatible with this site, as long as people are respectful and don’t call another’s way ‘false’, I think we can have a respectful dialog.
Does this help? Are there things where we can be more clear here? More inclusive?
It’s clear to me. And always has been. Your postings & others on this site have helped me to define my own path for myself.
Thanks (everyone).
Mike from Milton.
Well said, wayfarer. So much of it is in the terminology and meaning, and many first knee-jerk reactions to this concept are that it is just rationalizing the rules, and some are not comfortable with that. I think what I’ve heard Ray and Brian say often is that we don’t often realize we all are doing some sort of that all the time, so once you get past the fear of this “middle way” being less than valiant in efforts, then it becomes more meaningful and deep instead of threatening and scary. I was pondering yesterday quite a bit about how this might be apply to what Elder Uchtdorf was teaching in the July issue of the ensign in the article
“Always in the Middle”: Quote:Beginnings are times for making resolutions, for creating plans, for bursts of energy. Endings are times for winding down and may involve feelings of completion or loss. But with the proper outlook, considering ourselves as
in the middle of thingscan help us not only to understand life a little better but also to live it a little more meaningfully. Is he not teaching the same principle…that avoiding the extremes and being in the middle between them are more meaningful in our lives…something we need to remember in managing our expectations? When things are in progress, not yet complete, then it can seem more messy and gray areas as we figure it out, and it is more black and white when completed…and since we live in the middle, we should be more comfortable with things not being complete, or clear, or black and white. That was how I looked at it, and immediately thought of Wayfarer and these comments on looking at things as a “middle way”.
Or is he really talking about something else? Do you see the connection?
I love Pres. Uchtdorf. Serious man-crush going on there. Heber13 wrote:I was pondering yesterday quite a bit about how this might be apply to what Elder Uchtdorf was teaching in the July issue of the ensign in the article
“Always in the Middle”: Quote:Beginnings are times for making resolutions, for creating plans, for bursts of energy. Endings are times for winding down and may involve feelings of completion or loss. But with the proper outlook, considering ourselves as
in the middle of thingscan help us not only to understand life a little better but also to live it a little more meaningfully. Yes, I thought of this also. It was an interesting article, and I thought one obvious thing he didn’t mention was that we are
always in the middle of developing our understanding or beliefs. The ending of learning in any category is the feeling that “I know” what needs to be learned.
Which reminds me of the old saying: The enemy of truth is a false sense of certainty.
What methods are there besides a middle way way? Nephite wrote:What methods are there besides a middle way way?
There are as many ways to stay LDS as there are people to follow them. Each person is on their own path, with unique needs and capabilities. The Middle Way of which I speak is simply the ‘coming together’ of people with their various experiences, strengths, and hope and sharing what works for them, how you apply each idea is up to you. To be clear:
The MIddle Wayis about harmony. So in discussions we try to set aside the extremes of emotion and intellectual position to share what works. The Middle Way openly seeks for truth wherever it may be, rejects things proven to be false, and suspends judgment on things unknown. As for the term, there are a lot of middle ways (lower case); when I speak of Middle Way, I’m using a method outlined by Confucius in the Doctrine of the Mean, and in his other works of the Great Learning and the Analects. Confucius was devoted in his religion — he just didn’t talk about it or advocate it. He taught the ways of how a polite society might live together in harmony and seek for truth. That’s why I use Middle Way with capitals, as simply a method guided by his writings, but it is not restrictive to Confucius, because it openly seeks truth from wherever it my come from.
There are also positive ways that lean to one side or another:
The way of belief– A positive way that takes the church position as true, indeed the source and final authority of all truth, and tries to reconcile each and every problem with the church position through justification and polite defense, but rejects any position that is not fully in harmony with the church. The way of finding something else– Some folk deal with their cognitive dissonance by finding another path. their focus is not so much to dissent, but recognizing that the way of belief in the LDS church and doctrine doesn’t work for them, they seek something else. Then there are the ways of division, the negative ways:
The One True Way®, that says there is only one way for everyone — their way — and then polemically defends that One True Way. This isn’t just belief, but rather, the way of a type of aggressive apologetics that proves that anyone dissenting from their position is anti-mormon and wrong. The way of rejection, that says the church is FALSE and rejects everthing about it. Then there are ways that are not extreme, but really aren’t Middle Way either:
The way of indifference, that makes no positive or negative choice of way, but simply ignores the issues, neither defending, neither rejecting, but simply falling away from any choice or path. The way of deception, that feigns belief and conformance in the church setting, while rejecting and acting in nonconformance with church principles in other settings. As I said above, there are as many ways as there are people to follow. You can see that I’m biased toward the middle, and prefer harmony to divisive polemics. That, to me, is the essence of the Middle Way: to proactive decide what I believe, and to live authentically according to that belief, finding harmony with others. The Middle Way, patterned after Confucius but not religious per se, simply finds balance: in emotions, in an open intellect, and in the idea that we are always progressing in this life – we are in the middle. I don’t have much else to add. Very well said IMO. I reckon I have been indifferent. I may be entering a middle way. wayfarer wrote:…The Middle Way does not deal with past issues or the future, recognizing that we are in the middle of our eternal lives, it focuses on the present. So the discipline can be summarized as
Being emotionally centered. This may require discipline and perhaps mediation and prayer to settle the emotions, and from there, reaching out in harmony to others.
Being intellectually centered. This finds the middle ground of truth, all truth, and allows respectful meaningful dialog between polar positions. It means harmony and respect, and completely avoids polemic debate as a means to getting truth.
Being Centered in the present. This recognizes that life is from everlasting to everlasting, and the only bit of control we have is over our thoughts and actions in the present. I cannot stress enough that the Middle Way is not a movement or religion. It is simply a discipline. Confucius was a devout religious man, but refused to talk about his religious beliefs in his writings, because the focus of his writings was to help people live the authentic life, irrespective of their faith status. To Confucius, the Middle Way is simply about truth, balance, and harmony. I do not personally believe there is a single best way to Stay LDS — there are many
ways to Stay LDS. To me, a very good way to Stay LDS is to find an authentic path that works for me…
Thanks for this, Wayfarer.I think the middle way is the “road least traveled” & somewhat intimidating, especially when you feel like you’re going against the social trends around you (in the church).
Yet, I think it is actually what the heart of Mormonism is about – what Joseph Smith did – he didn’t just accept religious authorities as his mediator for God – he went to the source.
Jesus also taught to stop lookin’ for love in all the wrong places, to look only to God (within), not people… that even prophets and laws are subservient to the 2 greatest laws about love.
One thing I’m working on in staying LDS while not accepting the religion as if it’s God… is putting love above being right.
I really want to tell everyone what a load of BS some things are. But people tried to tell me years ago & I only learned truth when I was good and ready myself.
There is a time & season… & we each are on our own unique time tables & spiritual journeys. God knows best. My duty is to love… yes, sometimes it means standing up for what’s right… but sometimes it’s “serenity to accept the things (people) I cannot change, courage to change the things I can & wisdom to know the difference.”
Love (striving for what’s best through trial & error/active faith) is our purpose & responsibility.
Being involved in the church is a convenient way of learning to love better.
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