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8. Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel? My answer: Yes, with emphasis on ‘Strive to’.
This is one of the most fair questions in the interview: it looks for an attempt rather than the normal expectation for perfection.
First and foremost among the covenants is to take upon me the name of Jesus Christ and always remember him. To keep his commandments, to me, is to first love myself as a reflection of God and Christ, and then to love others as myself.
This question doesn’t ask whether we really do turn our life over to Christ, but rather, do we keep the covenants, laws, and commandments of the gospel. This focus on legalism is problematic, but since the question is about strive, I’ll leave this alone.
Yes, especially when I add “according to the dictates of my own conscience” – but even strictly as worded. I wish more of the questions asked, “Do you strive . . . ?” That would eliminate the vast majority of issues for the vast majority of members – since they sincerely are striving.
No. I do not strive to keep all my covenants I have made “with the church” …namely, tithing, consecration, WOW, or attending my “other” meetings.
I have however, gone to three SM in row.
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Yes wayfarer….legalism sucks, and it is dragging many a church member down the drain. Please lds people…listen to your own prophets. Well, at least listen to your prophet D. Urchtdorf.
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Well, I put limits on my time and talents — greater limits than I think the typical TR holder does. Strict limits now. So, I answered no to this one too. Also, my conception of the Church-Man relationship has changed significantly based on my experiences. I kept my marriage covenants at significant personal sacrifice, and at great detriment to my personal happiness, only to find it counted for nothing with the Church when the chips were down when we tried to adopt a child. I guess I’ve gotten jaded about the role of temples, seeing them more as a tithing-generator and a means of keeping families together than a truly valuable spiritual experience. I hope this will change, I really do.
I do striveto keep my covenants. I’ve had periods when, for the sake of my family and my sanity, I consecrated less of me. Currently, though, we are all in.
Last night while I was in the middle of fulfilling one of my three callings, my cell phone rang. I excused myself to take a call from a member of the stake high council who was calling to ask me to speak at an upcoming event. What’s that saying about good horses…?
I answered yes. In reality, I’m just beginning again. wayfarer, thank you for the comment:
Quote:My answer: Yes, with emphasis on ‘Strive to’.
That makes sense for me.
Mike from Milton.
This use to be a big guilt problem for me. Until I realized that I was making covenants with the church…not the gods. IMO, most of the things we covenant to do, are, if we are not careful, can be cult-like pledges of loyalty to the institution. I don’t think they are intended to be that way…at least not anymore since polygamy era….but it still happens way to often.
I do have a covenant with the gods at this time…but it has nothing to do with tithing, WOW, obedience to church authority, building up the LDS church, wearing garments and white shirts, or really anything I learned in the temple etc etc.
My covenants are a bit different now…charity, being nice, making the world a better place to live in, giving to those in need, moderation in all things, The Middle Way, treating my wife and kids with respect, finding peace and helping those around me do the same….
WOW? Garments? Nah. I don’t think the gods really care about that kind of thing.
I hope this isn’t crossing any lines . For me personally one of the main reasons I resigned from the church is to formally have my temple covenants rescinded.
I would like to see the church to review with members what the covenants are they will be making instead of them hearing what the covenants are for the very first time when they are expected to make them. Some of those covenants are very significant promises – essentially promising everything you have, are, etc. to belong to the church and available to be asked for at any time – not to God but to the church. I don’t believe one should be asked to make those covenants without the opportunity to review them ahead of time.
bc_pg wrote:I hope this isn’t crossing any lines .
For me personally one of the main reasons I resigned from the church is to formally have my temple covenants rescinded.
I would like to see the church to review with members what the covenants are they will be making instead of them hearing what the covenants are for the very first time when they are expected to make them. Some of those covenants are very significant promises – essentially promising everything you have, are, etc. to belong to the church and available to be asked for at any time – not to God but to the church. I don’t believe one should be asked to make those covenants without the opportunity to review them ahead of time.
I don’t think this is out of line, bc_pg.
I was thinking about this just this morning. I think the key element is the caveat included at the end of this covenant. We consecrate everything for a specific purpose. If we are asked for anything that does not support that end, we are well within both our rights and our responsibility before God to refuse.
Zion, contrary to popular belief is not the SL Valley and neither is the Kingdom of God only the church.
I’ll avoid being too specific about the covenants to avoid offense and just say that you are thinking of the “consecration” covenant where I find the “sacrifice” covenant more troubling. bc_pg wrote:I’ll avoid being too specific about the covenants to avoid offense and just say that you are thinking of the “consecration” covenant where I find the “sacrifice” covenant more troubling.
I haven’t been to the temple in 14 years, and I’m not even sure what the covenant are anymore. Can we list the temple covenants here? I don’t know? Or are they secret/sacred, and not to be discussed outside of the temple? Serious question.
My guess is that would not be appropriate for this site – you can find the info in about 5 seconds on google though. the secret/sacred parts of the temple include the oaths of secrecy derived from the masonic rites, ironically, and a few other items. the covenants are available outside. Here is ETB with the explicit list:
Ezra Taft Benson, BYU Devotional, 12 April 1977, wrote:Celestial laws, embodied in certain ordinances belonging to the Church of Jesus Christ, are complied with by voluntary covenants. The laws are spiritual. Thus, our Father in Heaven has ordained certain holy sanctuaries, called temples, in which these laws may be fully explained, the laws include the law of obedience and sacrifice, the law of the gospel, the law of chastity, and the law of consecration.
full talk hereso according to Benson’s words:
1. Law of obedience and sacrifice
2. Law of the gospel
3. Law of chastity
4. Law of consecration
but question 8 is about covenants generally, temple covenants are specifically addressed in question 12.
There is very little about the temple ceremonies that is prohibited explicitly for discussion outside the temple, regardless of what many members think. I have no problem talking about almost anything relative to the temple (especially since it’s been published by multiple anti-Mormon sites AND described in lots of detali by LDS Church leaders (especially Talmage, Nibley and Packer) – but I want it to be in a focused discussion of specific things and done respectfully whenever I discuss those things. As wayfarer says, this question deals with the overall issue of covenants made and our attempts (striving) to keep them.
Frankly, given the belief most members and leaders have regarding the purpose for and end result of covenants, I have no problem whatsoever with this being a temple recommend question – even as I agree 10000% with bc_pg that our biggest failure as a church community relative to the temple is our unwillingness to talk about the temple in more detail and the lack of good preparation that causes for those attending for the first time.
If we talked more openly about what happens in temples (staying within proper restrictions that, again, are very few), SO much of the angst and negativity would fade away, imo.
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