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Another tragedy in our world: http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/20/us/colorado-theater-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/20/us/colorado-theater-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 My daughter woke me up at 3:45am this morning. She went to see the midnight showing of the new Batman movie with friends. But she was not happy, she was crying and scared. At the same time she was watching the movie, in a theater about 12 miles from us, the shootings and killings were taking place. Such a tragedy. When it is close to home, it is even more real how random things can happen to us, and how fragile life can be at any moment, and how scary that is. She said, “That could’ve been me”.
There are scary things like this in our world. It makes one wonder how a loving God can allow it to happen. It scares the kids to think this can actually happen.
What do we tell our children? Does anyone have any thoughts on the subject from today’s news?
Well it makes you wonder how we ever got through 9/11. That was nearly 3000 innocent civilians that perished that could’ve been us. Theres always going to be evil people in this world. You must have caution, but caution is different than fear. Fear is what they want you to have. And one way you can just be a force of eliminating violence and contention in this world, is just to be Christlike to everyone you meet, even your enemies.
My fiancé in Argentina actually messaged me about this today. I’ve wrestled with to. Reading history along with crime statistics shows a lot fewer homicides as humans have advanced. Violent crime is down but that doesn’t help kids understand. I work with Orthdox Jews. About 4 are holocaust survivors that I am close friends with. They tend to see it as free will and judgement as well as god reminding them to stay true to god. To be reminded they need him. My father used to say to me that god had need of them up in heaven to do important works for him. It worked for me as a child. Although I think life is more complicated then that. That is what I still loosely believe to keep me from being jaded at times because we really don’t know but it sounds as good as any to remain positive. And positive and loving is where I want to be. The kingdom of God is within (among) us – but this is the great day of the Devil’s power. One of the things I love most about pure Mormonism is the idea that we are exalt-able AND fallen – that we are good AND bad – that establishing Zion isn’t for the hereafter but the here and now – etc.
I don’t think we are doing a very good job with mental illness in this country. I don’t know what the coming days will reveal, but it’s hard to imagine mental illness not being a factor. Have any of you seen the Tilda Swinton / John C Reilly movie “We Need to Talk about Kevin”? I tried watching it but couldn’t quite make it through. It’s the story of parents whose son guns people down in a mass attack like this, in the town where they live and work. I am with Hawkgirl. I know of someone who is aware of someone who is “off” and recently was into guns. His family does not have money to get him help. This person called the health department and spent the day calling around trying to see how to get him some help with no money available. Never suceeded in getting him seen by anyone. This is scary! Amen, Hawk. We understand better than ever those who are obviously mentally ill, but we really don’t even understand those who are “well”, much less those who are less obviously mentally ill.
Hmm, don’t really like talking about “mentally ill” but I feel the need to inject here by the spirit. Movies like “We need to talk about Kevin” are really bad and create a severe disconnect from reality and only serve to create stigma to those with mental conditions. These type of “metal ill” patient represents the 1 percent yet made to look like a problem in society. Good for movies to generate money but not reality. I have and haved worked with 100s of “mentally ill” people throughout nearly 20 years now. I used to live next to a “mentally ill” group home for 16 years. My experience with them is very very different from what most people think and perceive them as in part because of the media. From Schizophrenia to sever bi-polar to manic depressive to Tourette syndrome and many others. Save for a few people I have watched as they were mocked, ridiculed , scouned laughed at in private and out loud repeatedly. People generally don’t understand the disorder and feel the need to make judgements or act out based on things they don’t understand. We have had such people in my various wards who have various conditions and almost no one tries to befriend them. Non would volunteer to pick them up for events because they felt uncomfortable around them. I was by default the guy that the bishop talked to to pick them because everyone else he talked to turned him down on these matters. Certainly there are a few that are mentally ill that would do things like this and even just as many non mentally ill.
My sister has married someone I love who has Tourette. I don’t like the way he is talked about behind his back. They just don’t understand and that part is ok. What gets me is when I try to explain it to them they just shut off their mind don’t try to understand and walk away(not everyone). Likewise many teachings of the church like “were under attack from evil where, circle the wagons” and few other pulpit teachings are refered to by physiologist as “cognitive distortions”. Teachings that the world is going to hell in a hand basket when all the studies show the violent world crime to be down are also refered to as “cognitive distortions”. So even SOME LDS teachings can be seen a type of mental distortion. Which goes in line when seeing things like this. When in reality these type of things always existed in one form or another and even much more prevalently in previous “world periods”. They are still very sad regardless. Yes there are a few % of parents that ignore problems with their children, and another unknown percent that just ignore problems.
But while discussing this please try to remember that the percent of any type of “mentally ill” persons that can and do harm others is very small. There will always be people that go without help for various reasons, always. I wish it wasn’t so but when money is involved most people don’t have the hundreds of thousand to spend on this for their children. And insurance no longer covers most if not all mental illness.
Still these conditions have existed since nearly nature itself(they exist in animals and mammals as well) and they are far better treated and understood now then in previous periods of history. Just to help keep things in context.
Quote:I don’t think we are doing a very good job with mental illness in this country. I don’t know what the coming days will reveal, but it’s hard to imagine mental illness not being a factor.
Quote:But while discussing this please try to remember that the percent of any type of “mentally ill” persons that can and do harm others is very small.
Amen to both of these statements. There is still too much stigma associated with mental illness. We are still too afraid of people who are different. Would such understanding have averted the tragedy? We’ll never know.
ForgottenCharity, just to give some background to my comment: My mother is schizophrenic, and I have sisters with mental health issues. I associate with lots of people who are bi-polar or suffer from depression. I also know lots of people, probably myself included, who aren’t diagnosed with any formal disorder but who could be, technically, if we understood mental health more fully. Frankly, I think almost everyone could be diagnosed with some sort of “disorder”, if we really understood humans more fully.
When I talk of mental illness, there is NO stigma attached to my usage. Honestly, it’s just the opposite for me.
From what I have read and heard about the shooter, I doubt he would be considered obviously mentally ill through normal observation. We know more than ever about those conditions and, generally, are much more understanding and accepting of them. It’s the less obvious manifestations that are not understood or accepted still. It’s the people who really are struggling to function “in the real world” but aren’t obviously handicapped / disabled / whatever who still are not understood and helped properly. I believe the person in question very well might fit into that category of mental illness.
I appreciate your comments Ray. It’s primarily because of your comments as well as Brian’s and wayfarer and the harmony That exist here(and hopefully stays) that I finallyjoined here after months of perusing.
Given the context to which I know see I understand your comment a lot better. I
Agree that there is much yet to be done. It is a sensitive subject)especally to those who’s conditions are lifelong regauedless of treatment). Most of the knowledge that we have if the brain is because of computers and monitoring the electrical activity in it. Computers are very new in history and we have yet much to learn. I agree 100% that we need and should do more to understand it and the conditions that can and do exist(probably within us all in one form or another).
My post reflex my experince with how I saw people react to those with little understood “mental illnesses”.
It really is met for those that may not have experience to try to not be so conclusive or quick to judge those that are diagnosed or maybe even undiagnosed. Which leads me to something I try not to discuss but I think it is far more common then people know or are willing to admit. Which is why I choose to view history and church history as a complex series of events. People of various conditions can and have existed in spiritual and church positions. Which to me is to say it is not that simple to refer to someone in history as either completly legit or a outright fraud.
More interesting to me as I see it is that sometimes such a condition can lead to a understanding or enlightenment because it taps into a part of the brain that we don’t understand. Certain people seem to have specail gifts because of certain brain condition. They even have given us enlightenment sometimes for it. It’s not simple, but I hope people don’t judge them for it.
Thank you Forgotten Charity for reminding/teaching us some things. The person I was referring to was one that parents did not seek help for while growing up (kept thinking he would outgrow it) school system kept passing him until he just dropped out, can’t hold a job and had just been cut off from a girlfriend. Someone had the bright idea to help him with his frustration levels, it would be a good thing to take him to the gun range and teach him to shoot guns. ????? I am also educated on mental illness conditions and brainstormed ways to get him some counseling. That is why I became aware of the situation. Someone contacted me for suggestions. Unfortunately, none of our suggestions panned out. It is incredibly difficult in our area to obtain services for people with lack of income. Our homeless shelter is filled with people with mental disorders. The director makes frequent appeals to the public for help. I also agree that there is much more to be discovered in this area and that most of us are walking around with something or other. The girlfriend ended up taking this man back after awhile, so I think things are good for now. I hope it works out for him afterall. I lived around people that got help until the Ronald regen era which mental health support took a big decline. Insurance stopped paying for mental health. Causing some I know to turn to gangs or commit crimes to go to jail to get a better quality of life since they couldn’t support themselves with the illness 
I tried to help out with what little money I had from various jobs and paper route. It was just way to expensive. My best friend was also epileptic and wouldn’t be hired because of it. I began to see a society that just wasn’t equipped to handle or even care about such people as a society. Individuals yes, as a society I just saw people sweep it under a rug. Literally, the released patience from physc. wards were gathered and put away from places of tourism while not dealing with the problem(Los Angeles area). This was during the 80s and I haven’t seen much improvement since. I would really like to know why billions are spent on alternative energy of all things rather then this. I hope as a society we can reprioritize our priority and help those in need(first things first). I appreciate everyone’s comments here.
Heber13 wrote:Another tragedy in our world:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/20/us/colorado-theater-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/20/us/colorado-theater-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 My daughter woke me up at 3:45am this morning. She went to see the midnight showing of the new Batman movie with friends. But she was not happy, she was crying and scared. At the same time she was watching the movie, in a theater about 12 miles from us, the shootings and killings were taking place. Such a tragedy. When it is close to home, it is even more real how random things can happen to us, and how fragile life can be at any moment, and how scary that is. She said, “That could’ve been me”.
There are scary things like this in our world. It makes one wonder how a loving God can allow it to happen. It scares the kids to think this can actually happen.
What do we tell our children? Does anyone have any thoughts on the subject from today’s news?
Heber,That’s a tough one… no doubt your daughter was really shaken up.
Maybe you can empathize with her… & that it’s natural to feel scared & unsure after something like that happens so close to you.
It might make you wonder if it will happen again, & then create extra fear.
Fear isn’t bad – it can be helpful, to keep us safe, but it can also become excessive & interfere with enjoying life.
Maybe you can tell her if she ever feels really fearful & wants to talk about it, it might help, to get someone else’s perspective & to not feel so alone.
Also, maybe explain to her that although this happened & it’s happened in other places, it’s very rare.
There are risks in living life – walking across the street, there’s no guarantee that you won’t be pooped on by a bird above.
🙂 But, we live by faith… that in the big (eternal) picture, everything is & will be fine.
We just do our best with what we can control & leave the rest up to God.
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