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I don’t know of any other way to communicate to the moderators, so I’ll do it this way. It seems odd that we can have a thread where many members don’t believe in an afterlife that supports individuality but we can’t discuss being active members of the church who don’t live a commandment. If you don’t believe in an afterlife, then Jesus’s resurrection couldnt have happened. Joseph Smith couldnt have gotten the priesthood as he claimed. Not believing in these things should preclude one from having a temple recommend just as much as one not living a “major” commandment. I don’t know why one can be discussed on here as an option while the other gets locked down.
It is also interesting to me that I’ve effectively been shunned from a quasi-LDS support site. I knew the official church wouldn’t support me. But I figured I’d at least find some interested commentators here.
MikeM wrote:It is also interesting to me that I’ve effectively been shunned from a quasi-LDS support site. I knew the official church wouldn’t support me. But I figured I’d at least find some interested commentators here.
I think everyone is interested but morbid curiosity might be more accurate. There’s a real distance between wondering if JS is the real thing and wanting to stay LDS and staying LDS while being involved in polyamory.
The other thing I wonder if you’re what you say you are and you and your wife are doing what you say you do or if we’re just being played.
Let’s forget that I ever mentioned the actual act. Let’s just consider the situation of someone who is guilty of something: whether it be kleptomania, idol worshiping, treason, etc. A serious enough issue that it would get one ex’d from the church, but who wants to stay. Should that person be pushed out simply because it’s offensive to the rest if he stays? And he’s trying to keep it a secret? Should he leave the Church? Should he leave without telling anyone why? Between leaving quietly and staying quietly which is better? MikeM, I haven’t been back all day but I went to read your second locked thread and accept the challenge to be ‘someone more intelligent or more well spoken than [you] to expose [your] thinking’.
You wrote this:
Quote:Good point. So if your “sin” were exposed, your formal church status wouldn’t change, but would your cultural status change and that of your children?
I’m not really that concerned about the impact that exposure would have on my official status (which would likely be severe). But I’m concerned about what would be whispered about my children and how they may be ostracized. My youngest kids are too young and take things too literal. If I were to change my ways it would be only to protect them and to keep things simple with the neighbors who may not understand.
You say that you are concerned that your behavior, if found out, would injure your children.
Why are you taking that risk?Perhaps, I should rephrase. Is it worth the risk to your children to continue to live this lifestyle?
As a parent, and maybe it’s just me, I bend over backward to give my kids the best shot at a good life. Often, that means putting myself and my needs last. Making the conscious decision to act in a way that might bring them harm, humiliation, or shame just so that I could get my groove on would be, in my opinion, both immature and selfish.
If the possible negative impact on your own young children isn’t enough of a deterrent, I can’t imagine a group of strangers on an internet message board are going to convince you to change course, no matter how intelligent or well spoken they might be.
You’ve gotten answers to your questions already – and your other examples have been addressed in general in our archived posts lots of times. It’s one of our central themes, so it’s here in spades. If something shouldn’t be worthy of excommunication, that’s one thing; if it obviously (to almost everyone) is worthy of excommunication, that’s an entirely different thing. We’ve answered your questions in this and other threads. Accept those answers or not, but you’re still asking the same question and getting the same answer:
We’re all sinners, but we don’t countenance the type of sins about which you’re asking. It’s that simple.
I try very hard not to get sarcastic, but I’m going to let it out this once:
If a site like this doesn’t want anything to do with your sexual proclivities, I think it’s a pretty good sign that you are more than a little out of the mainstream.I try always to be honest – and sometimes I get blunt. The following is the bluntness of my advice:
Lose the martyr complex.
You asked for advice and suggestions; you got advice and suggestions.What you didn’t get is validation to do something that even people here view as abominable within the context of trying to stayLDS. We told you how to stayLDS – by making it social only and divorced from regular church membership. You got exactly what you requested – but you didn’t want to get the specifics of what was offered. Now you’re whining that we disagree with your actions and are honest enough to say so to you – and trying to circumvent the central issue by shifting the discussion to other things. No thanks.
If you want validation, go somewhere else. If you want honest feedback, stay here. It’s up to you – but, if you stay here, lose the persecution complex.
MikeM….you may just be on the wrong board for this kind of conversation. Perhaps MO 2.0 or NOM might be a better stop for you at this time. Also, we already have a “Mike”. Perhaps you might change your user name if you decide to stick around and participate.
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MikeM wrote:Let’s forget that I ever mentioned the actual act. Let’s just consider the situation of someone who is guilty of something: whether it be kleptomania, idol worshiping, treason, etc. A serious enough issue that it would get one ex’d from the church, but who wants to stay. Should that person be pushed out simply because it’s offensive to the rest if he stays? And he’s trying to keep it a secret? Should he leave the Church? Should he leave without telling anyone why? Between leaving quietly and staying quietly which is better?
First, i think it important that we understand how tenuous a position we have on StayLDS. there are multiple people in LDS top leadership that consider people in this zone of wanting to remain active while holding unorthodox beliefs as a grave threat. this includes members and former members of the Maxwell Institute, and the Strengthening Church Members Committee, who monitor us closely for trends they consider destrucive to the church. they have a false worldview: that disaffected members go to the middle way because we want to “sin”. Your first post, combined with your second thread title “sinning and happy”, play right to the apologists and SCMC agenda.Second, alternative marriage arrangements are in the top position of church discipline, being considered both apostate and immoral. Your being here in open defiance of the top category of church law puts us all into a very precarious position, because condoning your behaviour puts us into a category of a group whose teachings or practice are opposed to the church. there is a world of difference between open defiance to the LoC and a flexible definition if the WoW, or even questioning the existence of an afterlife. church discipline is not invoked for word if wisdom violations, nonpayment of tithing, or even and especially nonbelief. your situation, should it become known, involves mandatory church court and almost invariably, excommunication. and i believe you know this.
if you had a grave sin in your life, and were struggling with it, then i doubt your presence here would be an issue. but since you are in open defiance to the church through your actions, and proclaim that you’re “sinning and happy”, your presence here threatens the group. This is not a landing zone for you in your current state.
sorry, that is the way i see it.
I’m locking this thread, as well. It’s not going anywhere productive, since it’s essentially a restatement of the first locked post. As cwald said, there are other sites that will tell you it’s OK to act in the way you want to act – no matter what that is. We aren’t one of those sites.
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