- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
I’m very close to my 17 year old daughter and have been working with her closely on being aware of mental illness and bipolar since my wife’s genes are most likely to pass on to her. While I was in Salt Lake this past week at my family’s reunion, she and my wife and oldest daughter (19) stayed home. On Friday, my 17 yr old daughter took 100 prozac and left a suicide note to the family and washed it down with clorox bleach. Luckily, my wife found her in time to rush her to the ER to save her life. She is now admitted on suicide watch to a mental behavioral clinic for psychic evaluation until Saturday and they still consider her a very high suicide risk. Today was the first day of her senior year of high school. She will miss her first week.
There are many things replaying in my mind when this happened to my wife 4 years ago.
I have prepared myself to try to StayLDS despite trials because I can separate out church stuff from real life stuff. But my questions now are resurfacing…in times like this when mental illness impacts the whole mortal existence, I do not find the teachings of the plan of salvation meaningful. All I know is that shitty stuff happens in life, and we have to muck through it. I don’t know what I expect from God, I guess not much since He doesn’t intervene and do anything for us in our shitty situations, we just try to develop character and stay positive and loving to those around us, even when things hurt.
It kills my motivation to want to try at church anymore.
So far my wife has handled everything very well and when I was gone she took care of everything until I could get back home. While I don’t understand how she can not see the connection with what she went through (she is still in denial), I’m just focused on my daughter’s safety now, not interested in fighting with my wife about stuff.
Since being admitted, my daughter has had multiple hallucinations that scare her, shadows and spirits in her room. The same thing my wife went through when she was admitted 4 years ago, although my wife still believes they were guardian angels protecting her when I abandoned her (there is still resentment there).
When I see these mental illness issues first hand, and see how helpless we are at doing anything about it, it is just part of life, then it totally impacts how I see the rest of the world…even Joseph Smith and his experiences.
Religion then becomes confusing to me, not a help to me. What is helpful is ward members and family who love us and call with words of encouragement. That is pure religion…which I don’t know what it has to do with God, if God exists out there somewhere.
Clearly, I still have issues to work through. My poor daughter is all alone and I can’t help her. I get exhausted trying to make sense of things.
If you have any ideas on what I should read or what thoughts I should keep in mind while I process all this, please give me advice.
I’m so sorry to hear about this, Heber. First and foremost, you and your family will be in my prayers. Honestly, as someone with a mother who is schizophrenic and who has other mental health issues in my extended family, the theology of Mormonism actually is a great comfort to me. I love the implications of our Second Article of Faith about not being punished for things we inherit genetically and can’t control (my reading of it), and I love the very open acknowledgment that those who face severe mental illness are not fully accountable for their actions.
There is no teaching that suicide automatically is murder and eternally damning. There is an awareness of the need for professional counseling and medication in cases of mental illness. There is an underlying belief in grace in those situations that I really love, especially since it affects me and mine so personally.
The God of pure Mormonism is FAR more gracious and loving than any other God I’ve studied, especially when gracious and loving isn’t defined to mean having no expectations and rules whatsoever. The God of pure Mormonism is very balanced – and that is so very rare in religion. I know not all members understand what I wrote above, but it’s there in spades in the pure theology. I don’t know if that perspective helps at all, but I believe it passionately.
WOW! oh wow. oh wow. That is so terrible. Sorry to hear what your daughter is going through. It’s heartbreaking. A parent’s worst nightmare. Been dealing with something similar but not quite as extreme with our oldest son who will be 21 this month. He moved back in with us at Christmas time and had to drop out of school. We had to take him into the ER a couple months ago because he asked us to one evening, said he felt like he was spiraling and felt out of control. Always worrying about him. Mental health issues are so hard to deal with, and our system of care is lacking. We struggled for months trying to find a competent psychiatrist that worked with our health insurance. It kills me to feel so helpless about it at times.
If it helps at all, you’re not alone, at least not as far as our little group here. Hang in there my friend! Call me whenever if you want to talk.
As for the questions of God and church, who knows? The only thing that matters is what works to make life better, even if just a little bit better, or a little less hurtful, or a little more brighter. And if God doesn’t appear to take care of the problems, then the best we can do is step in and try to be God in our own little imperfect way — the God we wish would appear.
If nothing else, God is the power to have and give hope. We are God to each other, at least in all the ways that seem to end up mattering. I have to believe in SOMETHING … even if I can’t prove anything … even if it’s just a made up story. I
haveto believe it matters to keep on trying, that there’s a point to it all. In my story, we’re all in this together, connected to each other, part of each other, perhaps even part of a larger common soul in a way. Someday the tears will be wiped dry, the sick will find health, the terrified will find peace. At some point we enter a period of rest. I don’t care if that isn’t true. I need to believe in it. If that type of belief motivates us to take care of each other, then it’s true.
Have hope Kevin. Hope and love is never wasted.
Heber, my heart goes out to you. I wish I could offer words of comfort, but I am ill-equipped to deal with mental health problems. On Sunday I went home teaching to a mentally ill man in the ward. His mother had a stroke about 2 months ago, and is hospitalized in a nursing home. She hopes to come home in a few weeks. He asked me if I could help him find a wheelchair for her so that she will be able to move around the apartment easier. I am looking.
As we talked, tears came down his face. He promised her that he would never send her to a nursing home, but due to the stroke, he has been unable to keep that promise. He has medical bills piling up. The bishop is helping him with food for now, but he is still struggling financially. He said that he was lying down a few weeks ago and felt like he should slit his throat. His dog came over and started licking his face, made him feel better, and he decided not to do it. He said he has mentioned this to other people. I asked him if he had told his therapist, and he said he had. I asked what his therapist said, and the therapist said that if he feels that way again, he is supposed to call the therapist immediately. I told him that he could call me too.
This isn’t the first time he has mentioned violence to me, and it bothers me every time I hear it. I don’t know how to respond. But I visit him nearly every month (sometimes multiple times in a month), and he appreciates a listening ear. That’s all I can do–I have no idea what else to do. I wish I had a better answer.
So very sorry. Hang in there! Don’t let your perceptions of others’ expectations drive you, follow your heart. Thanks for the words of encouragement. Orson wrote:follow your heart
Thanks, Orson. Sometimes, when my heart aches, it is hard to know how to follow it. But over time, my true feelings surface and you are right…I need to follow those, not the emotional mood swings I have.
mormonheretic wrote:I am ill-equipped to deal with mental health problems.
No…you’re story helps. Thanks for sharing. Sometimes all we can do is just love them and accept them…not try to “fix” them.
Brian Johnston wrote:The only thing that matters is what works to make life better, even if just a little bit better, or a little less hurtful, or a little more brighter. And if God doesn’t appear to take care of the problems, then the best we can do is step in and try to be God in our own little imperfect way — the God we wish would appear.
Yes…these are good thoughts…along with the Brian Johnston mantra I will tattoo to my back:
“The church f***ing delivers, man!”
Old-Timer wrote:I love the very open acknowledgment that those who face severe mental illness are not fully accountable for their actions.
Thanks Ray. You are right. There are beautiful teachings in the Church that help us through these real life things. I hadn’t thought of applying the 2nd AoF that way, but you are right.
The good news, my girl should be released tonight to come home with us. The bad news, my wife and I are not communicating well now, so I pray the spirit of contention in the home will not create more problems for my daughter as she comes home.
I think the broken home situation has had greater effect on my kids than I realized.
Heber13 wrote:…along with the Brian Johnston mantra I will tattoo to my back:
“The church f***ing delivers, man!”I have no specific recollection of any substantive conversation concerning that matter. I can neither confirm nor deny that at this time.
😆 😈 So sorry you are going through this. Nothing more to add, but my thoughts are with you. I want to add, we’ve been discussing the multiple accounts of the first vision on MH’s thread, and I have to add in private, just among friends… My daughter shared with us that while in the hospital (and on stabilizing drugs), she saw Jesus come to her, and he touched her and filled her with love.
What a beautiful story.
Of course, my wife had to ruin the moment by telling all the kids the same thing happened to her when she was admitted on suicide watch 4 years ago, and dad didn’t believe her either.
😡 My response to my daughter was that I do believe those things are real, I think she needed that, and it can be a very sacred experience for her that can help give her hope to help her out of her situation. I don’t want her to dismiss it or take it lightly, I want her to use that to commit to trying and never losing hope in life. (I’ve never told my wife I don’t believe her…she just assumes and feels ok to speak for me
Since my daughter has now been released and is home, I asked her about the experience and what it means to her. She now thinks that she was on drugs and was having hallucinations. She thinks it is interesting the same thing happened to her and her mom in the hospital, while on drugs…not any other time. I can see her trying to process it and figure out what it means to her and her faith.
I’m letting her decide what she wants, and how to figure it out.
Have you had similar experiences with loved ones (Ray, your mom?), or with others’ experiences with angelic visits or haunted houses? How did you handle it…or how would you handle it if it was your daughter?
I think it was hallucinations, but I think it can be a great hallucination experience…similar to a dream at night when you can learn things from night visions inside your brain. That doesn’t make the visitation not real…just not literally a visitation.
Any thoughts?
I don’t understand visions, but they can have whatever power and meaning we give them – and that is the wonderful thing about accepting them vs. requiring visitations, imo. That’s what I would share with my daughter, if something similar happened. Is she a Harry Potter fan? If so, I would reference Dumbledore’s line after Harry is killed by Voldemort and before Harry returns to life. It’s a powerful message, if we accept it.
My brother died in a car crash 6 years ago. His wife and 2 girls were life-flighted to U of U and Primary Children’s hospital. His wife had a compound fracture, losing about an inch of bone in her leg and has a steel rod replacement. (She had other serious injuries as well.) The 2 hospitals are connected and we wheeled her over to Primary Children’s so she could personally tell them their father was dead. On the return trip to her room, she started behaving strangely, so I got a nurse. When we returned, she was unresponsive, and we learned she had an accidental drug overdose. Her brother and I jumped into action, and I remember yelling about 2 inches from her face for her to wake up. The doctor administered a drug to counteract the morphine, and I remember she startled awake with me about 2 inches from her face. I asked her if I scared her, and she nodded, and started to fall back asleep. We shouted for her to stay awake, and to stay with us. The doctor said the antidote would save her life, but cause her tremendous pain as the injuries would have no pain relief anymore. I remember her brother gently holding her face and explaining that “pain is good.” The morphine had shut down her breathing, and made her incapable of speaking. The antidote caused her to be literally shaking in pain. A few days later, we talked about her perception of the incident. The doctors couldn’t understand why she overdosed, because it wasn’t an abnormally high amount, but apparently was a reaction to the morphine (it was an IV drip.) Anyway, she said that the room got very bright, and she wanted to go to the light. She said her hearing was very distorted, but she remembers her brother telling her that she needed to stay here for her children. That helped her decide to fight to stay with us. I am so grateful her brother was there. I later joked with her that she should remember what Donkey said in the movie Shrek: “Stay Away from the Light!”
I guess this is a combination of a near death experience, and perhaps could be explained as a drug induced vision. Following my brother’s death, I read “The Message” by Lance Richardson, as well as “90 Minutes in Heaven” by an evangelical pastor. Both had near death experiences. Perhaps these miraculous visions can be explained by drugs or some other phenomena, but I choose to believe them and they give me personal strength. (I also recommend “Return from Tomorrow”.) I guess everybody responds differently. I will say this: I’ve never been one that feels like I have visions or “miraculous” spiritual manifestations, but I do feel that my brother is helping me at times. I was blessed in my patriarchal blessing that I will always know the right path to take, but I usually feel I just muddle my way through life the best that I can. I do wish I had an easy faith, but mine seems so much more strained.
Following his death, I had a real struggle with the family proclamation: “Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother…” His children apparently weren’t entitled to be reared by their father. They have a great step-dad now, but it still bothers me that his 4 children only get to see their dad in home videos. (They ranged in age from 2-7 at the time of his death.) Fourteen years ago my sister passed away with 4 children as well at about the same ages. They are all in college now, and really don’t remember their mother very much. It’s so sad to me.
Anyway, I don’t want to make this a bummer, but I will say that following my brother’s death, I turned to blogging. It has been a spiritual feast for me. I often don’t know how to make people feel better, but I hope that I can empathize with their pain. Sometimes, that is all one can do. So Heber, I just want you to know that life is hard, and sometimes it really sucks. But I’m glad I have virtual friends I can turn to, and I hope I can be a virtual friend in times of struggle.
Thank you. That touched me dearly. What a powerful message, MH. Thanks for sharing (interestingly, someone just told me to read the Message, that is interesting you recommended that book also…I must need to read it) Friends are an important support. You all have been so influential on me.
My dad was taken from cancer 8 yrs ago. I wish at times I could feel him close.i don’t seem to have any of those experiences (yet) where I sense him. I still pray, and don’t feel answers come to me alone.
But your message touched me, and my bishop has been loving and supporting as he sees a little more what I deal with at home and how it impacts my faith, and the ward has been an incredible support for us (the scoutmaster just texted me they will pickup my 13 yr old son tonight to have a hoops and ice cream party specifically for him to let him know they care).
I can’t see God or feel His presence. But I see godlike stuff from so many people during crises.
Perhaps it is what Brian said, we are God, all of us.
Heber, fwiw, I also have never “felt” anyone in spirit in my life. The closest I have come is when words or thoughts come into my mind that I classify as revelation. At the most fundamental level, I do not have a “feeling” orientation; rather, I have a “thinking” orientation. I had to come to grips with that at a very young age, so I have an advantage over people who have to face it later in life.
There is an obvious theme of balance between feeling and thinking in our religion, but individuals tend to emphasize what is natural to them – which is ironic, given what we say about the “natural man”. I think a huge part of giving up the natural man is seeking and finding a way to balance – and balance between experiencing God in one’s heart AND mind is a great example of that. I just don’t think that kind of balance needs to be a 50/50 mathematical split – or a combination of classic, common experiences in either category.
(I’m going to post a new thread by copying what I just wrote. It might be a good spin-off of wayfarer’s post about indoctrination.)
Heber, I understand. I had the same experience with my sister as you did for your father. Despite the fact that I took her to radiation treatments every day for six weeks, I never really felt her presence after she died. I will say that I own her triple combination she used in high school. One day I decided to read every scripture she highlighted. It was a really cool experience, as it did seem she was talking to me in a way. I know she wanted me to get married (I was an old timer of 31 when she died), and she tried to help me with dating. I did end up meeting my future wife about 6 months after she died, and I have often wondered if she played cupid, though I can’t say I felt her presence ever. My brother and I really were best of friends, and he was just 2 years younger than me. I remember playing basketball with him that we just had a certain chemistry on the floor without words. I have often remarked that I would gladly trade his spiritual presence for his physical presence. While it is nice to feel him near me (and I felt his presence more often then than now), I miss him greatly. I do think that “The Message” helped me realize that he is silently watching me, helping me, but I also think he knows how to communicate with me better than any other family member.
I am a little worried about my parents. Both have pacemakers, and both are starting to deal with age-related health issues. I know they won’t be here forever, and I don’t want to think about not being able to talk to them anymore. But this is one of those sucky things we all have to deal with at some time.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.