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I come from an “interesting” family to put it mildly. My parents were (are) in very many ways orthodox LDS. However, my mom kinda also had some new age-y type ideas that she incorporated into her belief system and taught us growing up- so long as it didn’t interfere with any of the actual doctrines (That she knew of.) So to be honest, with some things I was taught I am not always sure where the line between gospel teachings and her ideas is. I thought I would bring up some of this with you all super smart people and see what you think… One of the things that I had thought much about through the years and my trials were guardian angels. From my mom’s concept guardian angels are the stewards over us in heaven that are responsible for touching this world where they can and when it is God’s will to help us here. The word angel is used technically incorrectly since they are not always resurrected beings (yet) but as it is a traditional word I will stick with it. These guardians or guides are family members who have passed on but they have specific assignments to us. In other words, not just any angels are assigned to any and all people- each one has a jurisdiction. According to one of my Dad’s visions, my paternal grandfather is specifically assigned to me so he is supposed to be at least one, but each person has at least a few direct guardians. I always thought if things on earth are an imperfect version of what is in heaven, their function is much like a version of home or visiting teachers. Of course I have heard my share of mormon urban legends about these beings. I hope most are true.
I have watched some people in their lives whose guardian angels seem to work overtime. Both of my husbands have had amazing ones. Either that or crazy dumb luck, idk. I will take for example my current husband from whom I am currently separated from (sort of, it’s complicated- story for another time maybe) He is very far from a righteous man. However everything he needs tends to show up exactly when he needs it exactly as he wants it. It is the freakiest thing to watch. Example- He will be driving down the freeway and decides he needs a tie down. He pulls over and there is a bungee cord on the side of the road right where he parks. I have seen this time after time after time. Not every single need and want is constantly met of course, but most are and in eerily divine-type ways. He gets out of really big messes he statistically shouldn’t and is “blessed” in so many ways against the odds. You would have to see it to believe it. If he decides he needs a new refrigerator for example, he will go online and someone will have just posted an ad for a free one and he will be the first one to call and they will just happen to live in the direction of someplace he was going anyway. I am using little examples, but he gets help with the way big stuff too.
And then I watch my life, and I watch how consistently things that should work out in my favor just don’t seem to, and when my needs are opposed to others, each and every time it will be granted to the others- like my husbands. I don’t mean to seem ungrateful– I am very blessed in many ways– but it really isn’t the same level of “luck.” I often thought that if the guardians were imperfect beings as they would be since they hadn’t received Godhood status yet you will have a vast variation of how well each does their job. Just like home teachers. Some will show up every month and help you fix your car and weed your garden and anything else you need. Some just come so they can say they did. Some show up once every few months and some never at all. It seemed to make sense to me that the same would be with the guardians. Each will be on their own spiritual timeline and maybe some are too wrapped up and overwhelmed to do everything they need to.
Some people tend to think God plays favorites. Some people tend to get pretty much everything they need and want, others get nothing. It often seems to run for generations this way. I don’t know how much you all have seen but I think I have seen more suffering than most just because I am more experienced with more travel and cultures than probably average. It really is a HUGE stark contrast and really does seem to run in families for the most part. This leads to people saying things like “chosen people” and “cursed for generations.” These things never seemed to make sense to me since it goes against the whole idea that we are not held accountable for our parents’ transgressions thing. Anyway, if there are guardian angels that follow genealogical patterns and some do better jobs than others than this seems to make more sense to me than the favorites or “special people by birth” theories. Idk- just an idea.
Don’t get me wrong- in no way do I think it is God’s or angels’ jobs to make sure everything goes right and save us from so much heartache. I do agree that people need a certain amount of adversity for growth. (Boy I have seen examples of what not enough does to some people!) But I do think we all need to feel that there is some divine help and intervention. In church, they always use the parable of the trees near the shore line. If not enough wind blows on a growing tree, the first storm will come and wipe it out. Moral— we need wind. I agree. But what they never say is that if there is an unceasing storm and too much wind too much of the time, the trees don’t survive either. And if they do survive they don’t develop correctly either. I have seen broken people. I have seen people who had more then they could handle. Case in point is people who committed suicide. They obviously had more than they could handle. So that saying “God never gives you anything you can’t handle” I think is totally not true. My imaginings would be that a guardian angel would be there just enough to make sure we stay in that zone where we can handle things; where we can still get the emotional/spiritual need met that God is listening and He does care. But as imperfect beings doing imperfect jobs they don’t always get it right.
So my entire point here is this… does anyone know of any real gospel basis for any of this? As I think of it, I cannot recall any actual teachings as doctrine on this. Are these mostly Mormon urban legends, or the ramblings of a crazy women? What is everyone’s take on these theories?
Hi Sally! All I have to say is if I have guardian angels they have no sense of direction AND are working with a malfunctioning GPS unit.
I have never heard of this taught at church. I have heard it a lot from eastern(Asian) philosophy but not at church. This might be one of those things like most of my friends I grew up with believe in soul mates. I haven’t heard of it talked about in church but my sister asked her bishop and we don’t in fact believe in soulmates(church). I suspect there are plenty of other things that are taught as doctrine but not like caffeine and those 2 things. I did cobble together a few references to this…
Quote:President Joseph F. Smith gave us some insight about angels who minister to those on the earth: “When messengers are sent to minister to the inhabitants of this earth, they are not strangers, but from among our kindred, friends, and fellow-beings and fellow-servants. The ancient prophets who died were those who came to visit their fellow creatures upon the earth. They came to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; … such beings … waited upon the Savior and administered to him on the Mount. … Our fathers and mothers, brothers, sisters and friends who have passed away from this earth, having been faithful, and worthy to enjoy these rights and privileges, may have a mission given them to visit their relatives and friends upon the earth again, bringing from the divine Presence messages of love, of warning, or reproof and instruction, to those whom they had learned to love in the flesh.” (Gospel Doctrine, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1970, pages 435–36.)
John Taylor, “The Origin and Destiny of Women,” in The The Mormon (Aug. 29, 1857). An LDS woman asked John Taylor questions on her origin and destiny.
“Lady — whence comest thou? . . . “Knowest thou not that eternities ago, thy spirit, pure and holy, dwelt in thy Heavenly Father’s bosom, and in his presence, and with thy mother, one of the Queens of heaven, surrounded by thy brother and sister spir
ts in the spirit world, among the Gods. That as thy spirit beheld the scenes transpiring there, and thou growing in intelligence, thou sawest worlds upon worlds organized and peopled with thy kindred spirits, took upon them tabernacles, died, were resurrected, and received their exalt[at]ion on the redeemed worlds they once dwelt upon. Thou being willing and anxious to imitate them, waiting and desirous to obtain a body, a resurrection and exaltation also, and having obtained permission, thou made a covenant with one of thy kindred spirits to be thy guardian angel while in mortality, also with two others, male and female spirits, that thou wouldst come and take a tabernacle through their lineage, and become one of their offspring. You also choose [chose] a kindred spirit whom you loved in the spirit world, (and had permission to come to this planet and take a tabernacle,) to be your head, stay, husband, and protector on the earth, and to exalt you in the eternal worlds. All these were arranged, likewise the spirits that should tabernacle through your lineage. Thou longed, thou sighed, and thou prayed to thy Father in heaven for the time to arrive when thou couldst come to this earth, which had fled and fell from where it was first organized, near the planet Kolob. Leave thy father and mother’s bosoms, and all thy kindred spirits, come to earth, take a tabernacle, and imitate the deeds of those you had seen exalted before you.At length the time arrived, and thou heard the voice of thy Father, saying, “go daughter to yonder lower world, and take upon thee a tabernacle . . . Daughter, go, and be faithful in your second estate, keep it as faithful as thou hast, thy first estate.[“]
Thy spirit filled with joy and thanksgiving rejoiced in thy Father . . . Thou bade father, mother, and all, farewell and along with thy guardian angel, thou came on this terraqueous globe. [(]The spirits thou had chosen to come and tabernacle through their lineage, and your Head having left the spirit world some years previous.) Thou came a spirit pure and holy, thou hast taken upon thee a tabernacle, thou hast obeyed the truth, and thy guardian angel ministers unto thee and watches over thee. Thou hast chosen him you loved in the spirit world to be thy companion. Now, crowns, thrones, exaltations and dominions are in reserve for thee in the eternal worlds . . . That when mortality is laid in the tomb, you may go down to your grave in peace, arise in glory, and receive your everlasting reward in the resurrection of the just, along with thy Head and husband. Thou will be permitted to pass by the Gods and angels who guard the gates, and onward, upward to thy exaltation in a celestial world among the Gods. To be a Priestess Queen unto thy Heavenly Father, and a glory to thy husband and offspring, to bear the souls of men, to people other worlds, (as thou didst bear their tabernacles in mortality,) while eternity goes and eternity comes . . .
Whether or not each individual has a “guardian angel” is a topic addressed some years ago by Elder John A. Widtsoe:
“Undoubtedly angels often guard us from accidents and harm, from temptation and sin. They may properly be spoken of as guardian angels. Many people have borne and may bear testimony to the guidance and protection that they have received from sources beyond their natural vision. Without the help that we receive from the constant presence of the Holy Spirit, and from possible holy angels, the difficulties of life would be greatly multiplied.
“The common belief, however, that every person born into the world has a guardian angel assigned to be with that person constantly, is not supported by available evidence. … An angel may be a guardian angel though he come only as assigned to give us special help. In fact, the constant presence of the Holy Spirit would seem to make such a constant, angelic companionship unnecessary.
“So, until further knowledge is obtained, we may say that angels may be sent to guard us according to our need; but we cannot say with certainty that there is a special guardian angel, to be with every person constantly.” (The Improvement Era, April 1944, page 225.)
It appears to me that the further back you go the stronger the references to guardian angels appear to be. It is ironic to note that John Taylor’s comments also seem to point to premortally committed “kindred spirits” (another term for “soul mates”). I believe that the modern church does not believe in guardian angels, kindred spirits, speaking in tongues, and many other things that were taught once upon a time.
You personally are allowed to believe whatever makes the most sense to you. Although I’m not sure how envisioning your guardian angel as a fat and lazy couch potato that “mails it in” just before the end of the month is going to help you deal with and frame life in healthy ways.
I know that my belief structure might not reflect anything from the unseen world or the afterlife. But I believe that the elements that I have gravitated to/chosen help me to live with compassion and hope and so it is “true” for me. Maybe it can be that way for you as well…
Roy wrote:I did cobble together a few references to this…
Quote:President Joseph F. Smith gave us some insight about angels who minister to those on the earth: “When messengers are sent to minister to the inhabitants of this earth, they are not strangers, but from among our kindred, friends, and fellow-beings and fellow-servants. The ancient prophets who died were those who came to visit their fellow creatures upon the earth. They came to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; … such beings … waited upon the Savior and administered to him on the Mount. … Our fathers and mothers, brothers, sisters and friends who have passed away from this earth, having been faithful, and worthy to enjoy these rights and privileges, may have a mission given them to visit their relatives and friends upon the earth again, bringing from the divine Presence messages of love, of warning, or reproof and instruction, to those whom they had learned to love in the flesh.” (Gospel Doctrine, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1970, pages 435–36.)
John Taylor, “The Origin and Destiny of Women,” in The The Mormon (Aug. 29, 1857). An LDS woman asked John Taylor questions on her origin and destiny.
“Lady — whence comest thou? . . . “Knowest thou not that eternities ago, thy spirit, pure and holy, dwelt in thy Heavenly Father’s bosom, and in his presence, and with thy mother, one of the Queens of heaven, surrounded by thy brother and sister spir
ts in the spirit world, among the Gods. That as thy spirit beheld the scenes transpiring there, and thou growing in intelligence, thou sawest worlds upon worlds organized and peopled with thy kindred spirits, took upon them tabernacles, died, were resurrected, and received their exalt[at]ion on the redeemed worlds they once dwelt upon. Thou being willing and anxious to imitate them, waiting and desirous to obtain a body, a resurrection and exaltation also, and having obtained permission, thou made a covenant with one of thy kindred spirits to be thy guardian angel while in mortality, also with two others, male and female spirits, that thou wouldst come and take a tabernacle through their lineage, and become one of their offspring. You also choose [chose] a kindred spirit whom you loved in the spirit world, (and had permission to come to this planet and take a tabernacle,) to be your head, stay, husband, and protector on the earth, and to exalt you in the eternal worlds. All these were arranged, likewise the spirits that should tabernacle through your lineage. Thou longed, thou sighed, and thou prayed to thy Father in heaven for the time to arrive when thou couldst come to this earth, which had fled and fell from where it was first organized, near the planet Kolob. Leave thy father and mother’s bosoms, and all thy kindred spirits, come to earth, take a tabernacle, and imitate the deeds of those you had seen exalted before you.At length the time arrived, and thou heard the voice of thy Father, saying, “go daughter to yonder lower world, and take upon thee a tabernacle . . . Daughter, go, and be faithful in your second estate, keep it as faithful as thou hast, thy first estate.[“]
Thy spirit filled with joy and thanksgiving rejoiced in thy Father . . . Thou bade father, mother, and all, farewell and along with thy guardian angel, thou came on this terraqueous globe. [(]The spirits thou had chosen to come and tabernacle through their lineage, and your Head having left the spirit world some years previous.) Thou came a spirit pure and holy, thou hast taken upon thee a tabernacle, thou hast obeyed the truth, and thy guardian angel ministers unto thee and watches over thee. Thou hast chosen him you loved in the spirit world to be thy companion. Now, crowns, thrones, exaltations and dominions are in reserve for thee in the eternal worlds . . . That when mortality is laid in the tomb, you may go down to your grave in peace, arise in glory, and receive your everlasting reward in the resurrection of the just, along with thy Head and husband. Thou will be permitted to pass by the Gods and angels who guard the gates, and onward, upward to thy exaltation in a celestial world among the Gods. To be a Priestess Queen unto thy Heavenly Father, and a glory to thy husband and offspring, to bear the souls of men, to people other worlds, (as thou didst bear their tabernacles in mortality,) while eternity goes and eternity comes . . .
Whether or not each individual has a “guardian angel” is a topic addressed some years ago by Elder John A. Widtsoe:
“Undoubtedly angels often guard us from accidents and harm, from temptation and sin. They may properly be spoken of as guardian angels. Many people have borne and may bear testimony to the guidance and protection that they have received from sources beyond their natural vision. Without the help that we receive from the constant presence of the Holy Spirit, and from possible holy angels, the difficulties of life would be greatly multiplied.
“The common belief, however, that every person born into the world has a guardian angel assigned to be with that person constantly, is not supported by available evidence. … An angel may be a guardian angel though he come only as assigned to give us special help. In fact, the constant presence of the Holy Spirit would seem to make such a constant, angelic companionship unnecessary.
“So, until further knowledge is obtained, we may say that angels may be sent to guard us according to our need; but we cannot say with certainty that there is a special guardian angel, to be with every person constantly.” (The Improvement Era, April 1944, page 225.)
It appears to me that the further back you go the stronger the references to guardian angels appear to be. It is ironic to note that John Taylor’s comments also seem to point to premortally committed “kindred spirits” (another term for “soul mates”). I believe that the modern church does not believe in guardian angels, kindred spirits, speaking in tongues, and many other things that were taught once upon a time.
You personally are allowed to believe whatever makes the most sense to you. Although I’m not sure how envisioning your guardian angel as a fat and lazy couch potato that “mails it in” just before the end of the month is going to help you deal with and frame life in healthy ways.
I know that my belief structure might not reflect anything from the unseen world or the afterlife. But I believe that the elements that I have gravitated to/chosen help me to live with compassion and hope and so it is “true” for me. Maybe it can be that way for you as well…
Thanks Roy. I find this both interesting and enlightening.
Roy wrote:Although I’m not sure how envisioning your guardian angel as a fat and lazy couch potato that “mails it in” just before the end of the month….
Lol that’s an awesome visual!
😆 I really do appreciate your time in looking up all that. Very interesting reading and exactly what I was after.
Do you believe in being tested and that since you are so strong spiritually, your tests will have to be stronger? Someone shared that with me once. afterall wrote:Do you believe in being tested and that since you are so strong spiritually, your tests will have to be stronger? Someone shared that with me once.
I have heard alot of that in the church. I have also heard much that Satan tries most to get the ones who have the most promise. idk. I think of the tiny babies born into families who abuse and torture them from birth, and the natural defense in the developing psyche is to also grow up to become monsters who also abuse and torture. I now question how much “free agency” they really had, and if that is the case that they had the greatest tests then they must have been the strongest of us all… and yet they failed. Yet God sent them to those families knowing they probably would fail. idk. I really wonder about that sometimes. Did they ever really have a chance? I think I have a gift of empathy to the point that it is sometimes a curse. OK lots of times a curse.
I think some of us just tell ourselves that because it helps us feel better. If we look around and see others who are really not tested so much we want to say “well Satan doesn’t want them so much.” Maybe it is true. If it helps you cope then definitely hold onto it and run with it. Hope gets us a long, long way.
I guess there has been a bit of “evidence” in my life to suggest that it might be true. Both of my husbands as I mentioned had crazy good guardians or something. Yet reality is neither have been any where near as strong as me. Maybe they couldn’t handle what I have. I don’t mean to brag but they broke under much less. Also, there was a point when I was living in a very wealthy neighborhood of brand new houses. (I lived in student housing nearby but the ward was predominantly rich.) I had a hard time going to Homemaking sometimes because I had to listen to stories like “I really wanted the $50k cupboards for my kitchen but my husband just had to invest in the lot next to ours so I had to get the $20k cupboards. Oh poor me I just can’t believe it.” (She really was on the verge of tears!) Another woman wanted to divorce her husband because he bought her a diamond necklace instead of the tennis bracelet she really wanted. OMG I could have just lost my lunch all over the floor. The kicker was a woman who stood up in SM and talked about how a pipe broke under her house and that really made her question God. WTH???? Really??? I did learn something from her though. I defined in my mind that there is a HUGE difference between problems and trials. Problems are the regular headaches of life. Most everyone has them. A flat tire, a broken pipe, a bout of the flu that takes a family down for several weeks. A trial though; changes your relationship with God. You are forced to evaluate your beliefs and your moral code. During the process, what you decide and you believe determines whether you are closer to God, or further, but a change one direction or the other takes place. I suppose to some people broken pipes might do that, although its hard for me to fathom. I guess that is off the subject, but if those women had any idea what real problems were like, I shudder to think what it would do to them. And I just kept thinking… Really??? Really??? What I wouldn’t give to let a tennis bracelet be my biggest problem in life! Or even a broken pipe!
Then again I think most people argue that the lack of strength was not what led to being tested less, but that the tests led to the strength. However, as I said though- sometimes people are indeed tested beyond their limits. Sometimes they break.
RagDollSallyUT wrote:afterall wrote:Do you believe in being tested and that since you are so strong spiritually, your tests will have to be stronger? Someone shared that with me once.
I have heard alot of that in the church. I have also heard much that Satan tries most to get the ones who have the most promise. idk. I think of the tiny babies born into families who abuse and torture them from birth, and the natural defense in the developing psyche is to also grow up to become monsters who also abuse and torture. I now question how much “free agency” they really had, and if that is the case that they had the greatest tests then they must have been the strongest of us all… and yet they failed. Yet God sent them to those families knowing they probably would fail. idk. I really wonder about that sometimes. Did they ever really have a chance? I think I have a gift of empathy to the point that it is sometimes a curse. OK lots of times a curse.
I think some of us just tell ourselves that because it helps us feel better. If we look around and see others who are really not tested so much we want to say “well Satan doesn’t want them so much.” Maybe it is true. If it helps you cope then definitely hold onto it and run with it. Hope gets us a long, long way.
I guess there has been a bit of “evidence” in my life to suggest that it might be true. Both of my husbands as I mentioned had crazy good guardians or something. Yet reality is neither have been any where near as strong as me. Maybe they couldn’t handle what I have. I don’t mean to brag but they broke under much less. Also, there was a point when I was living in a very wealthy neighborhood of brand new houses. (I lived in student housing nearby but the ward was predominantly rich.) I had a hard time going to Homemaking sometimes because I had to listen to stories like “I really wanted the $50k cupboards for my kitchen but my husband just had to invest in the lot next to ours so I had to get the $20k cupboards. Oh poor me I just can’t believe it.” (She really was on the verge of tears!) Another woman wanted to divorce her husband because he bought her a diamond necklace instead of the tennis bracelet she really wanted. OMG I could have just lost my lunch all over the floor. The kicker was a woman who stood up in SM and talked about how a pipe broke under her house and that really made her question God. WTH???? Really??? I did learn something from her though. I defined in my mind that there is a HUGE difference between problems and trials. Problems are the regular headaches of life. Most everyone has them. A flat tire, a broken pipe, a bout of the flu that takes a family down for several weeks. A trial though; changes your relationship with God. You are forced to evaluate your beliefs and your moral code. During the process, what you decide and you believe determines whether you are closer to God, or further, but a change one direction or the other takes place. I suppose to some people broken pipes might do that, although its hard for me to fathom. I guess that is off the subject, but if those women had any idea what real problems were like, I shudder to think what it would do to them. And I just kept thinking… Really??? Really??? What I wouldn’t give to let a tennis bracelet be my biggest problem in life! Or even a broken pipe!
Then again I think most people argue that the lack of strength was not what led to being tested less, but that the tests led to the strength. However, as I said though- sometimes people are indeed tested beyond their limits. Sometimes they break.
Yes sometimes, in these cases many or even most times they do. When fight or flight is being triggered strongly here and a person can’t escape they are left with fight. The body and mind can indeed only endure so much, it is finite. The paradox begins when you see it not as gods test but the act of free will to those around them. Did god cause them to act outside thier free will to others for a test? I believe not. In my case growing up, I lacked and lack the capacity to hurt others I just wound up taking out on myself. Once I separated myself from the situation(when I got motorcycle) I later I moved out. I began to try to learn to have charity with myself and not just with others. It doesn’t have to always lead to breaking down and taking it out on others but it usually does when a person is trapped in a situation and can’t flee they usually fight. In my situation it is a miracule I am even alive (a sentiment shared by all who know). So I’m not sure if thier was a “guardian angel” or not. There was a time when no one believed I would survive, or live functioning healthy life, yet here I am. Guardian angel or? It’s interesting to think about. What ever it is I chose the positive answers.
Good insight on problems versus trials. And I have been exposed to a few women like that too. It does make one wonder if we are all really from the same planet. :problem:
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