Is Revelation Situational?

When I was younger I had these manifestations very common but very sporadic. I noticed there tendency to drop in hostility and turmoil I was often surrounded in. But for the breif moments I could escape on my own to somewhere I would often feel them again. When I was engaged to my former russian ex fiancé who was going from modeling(during which time I baptized her) to neurosurgeon she became bothered by what she learned about the “spirit” and what she was learning about in college and latter her job. Although I disagree with her on the ultimate end of things, I can nit deny the chemicals and certain “cells” response to various things that manifest as the “spirit”. While she saw it as just a biological evolutionary stimuli, I saw it as the way in which god manifest himself. But there is in important lesson I took from it. Certain cells activate in some people and not in others. Including the cells with which god manifest himself with. That to me explains why some get them and some don’t. Biologically we are wired differently. When we exersize certain parts of our brain it works like a muscle. Stronger, faster, etc. when we don’t exersize it it becomes weaker. But then we can over excessive and lose the “feeling” as well(become numb to it). Just like people with disabilities some people may not have to may not be able to exersize those “spiritual cells”. We can try what works for us(individually) to exercise them. Based on what she shared with me and I continue to learn in my own I can say it won’t always work the way Moroni spells it out. It will for some with similar cell structure. But for others they will need to exersize thier own special cell structure to recieve the spirit and revelation. We must each exersize that those brain cells which allows god to talk with us which will vary from differently wired people. The difficulty lies in the finding out how to exersize those cells that work for us in the way in which god communicates to us, it won’t always work the way to exersize them in which Moroni says. But it will work for some.

Ok, we can claim a biological basis for this…and you seem to imply that God activated/stimulated those cells in me, and gave me a testimony, and answer to a pretty direct question. But now, 30 years later, it is not sustaining for me. I am reframing what it means. I can’t accept the revelation anymore even though it was pretty cause and effect, and should be enough.

Is this part of evolving into a spiritual adult? Can a man have what he feels are repeated confirmations, but find eventually he has to reframe the meaning of those revelations to keep his hand on the plough?

Hey SD,

The way that you interpret this experience is completely up to you. I admire your determination to view the world as an optimist (even though this is not your natural inclination). I would apply the same reasoning to your perspective of these spiritual experiences. What interpretation creates the most good for you and yours?

I did see the results of a non-official experiment where the participants were asked to pray over a particular political belief that they had (say pro-life vs. pro-choice). Not everyone had a confirming experience but those that did had an overwhelming percentage confirming their previous position as opposed to countering it.

I believe that this is consistent with wanting something to be true.

So yes, revelation can be situational. I believe that you have a good handle on things…carry on.

Thanks Roy — that was a ringer with linking this back to a previous post I made. Where I get myself into trouble was that I framed the prayer and question to turn it into cause and effect. A specific no-way-out question in prayer “Is it true, and it should I be a member of it?”, then a pause, a short wait and then a torrent of overpowering spirituality. The answer was undeniable, and confirmed a few times later on…but not recently when I have asked, needing a booster shot…all that is left is an intellectual belief I should remain with it given my family, the lack of a better approach religion out there after neutralizing the harmful elements of Mormonism, and reducing its financial and stress toll on my family now that I have more resources and talent than ever before in my life.

Thanks for the affirmation that you think I’m doing fine. I appreciate that. As I’ve grown comfortable in my current state of affairs, I guess I’m examining this more closely as unlike many, I did apply Moroni 3:5 and it worked. And there was a tight cause-effect relationship between the specificity of the question and the near immediate proximity of the answer — after a year or getting nothing.

There are times that I think the Lord knew I would struggle in this religion, and held out hoping I would find something more suitable…but I found nothing, and he ultimately decided He should at least let me latch on to something I had found and was willing to believe in….

Here is a positive analogy for which I try to explain your situation. Maybe it can help with the “gift” analogy in these type of situation.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/finding-love/201109/how-your-greatest-insecurities-reveal-your-deepest-gifts” class=”bbcode_url”>http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/finding-love/201109/how-your-greatest-insecurities-reveal-your-deepest-gifts

Core gifts are not the same as talents or skills. In fact, until we understand them, they often feel like shameful weaknesses, or as parts of ourselves too vulnerable to expose. Yet they are where our soul lives. They are like the bone marrow of our psyche, generating a living stream of impulses toward intimacy and authentic self-expression. But gifts aren’t hall-passes to happiness. They get us into trouble again and again. We become most defensive-or most naïve-around them. They challenge us and the people we care about. They ask more of us than we want to give. And we can be devastated when we feel them betrayed or rejected.

Since the heat of our core is so hard to handle, we protect ourselves by moving further out from the center. Each ring outward represents a more airbrushed version of ourselves. Each makes us feel safer, puts us at less risk of embarrassment, failure, and rejection. Yet, each ring outward also moves us one step further from our soul, our authenticity, and our sense of meaning. As we get further away from our core gifts, we feel more and more isolated. When we get too far, we experience a terrible sense of emptiness.

So, most of us set up shop at a point where we are close enough to be warmed by our gifts, but far enough away that we do not get burned by their fire. We create safer versions of ourselves to enable us to get through our lives without having to face the existential risk of our core.

there’s in analogy in there somewhere for this, I just know it 😆 hopefully this will be useful to you.

Yes, it is, if we really believe it comes from God according to God’s choice – no matter if we define “God” as an outside person/entity or as internal to us collectively and/or individually.

So, could you argue then, that God, the giver of all truth, could confirm something as true, when in fact, it isn’t completely or eternally? There are times I think the question I asked was VERY cause and effect, and VERY simplistic by my current understanding, but at the time, all-encompassing to me given the literalists teaching me at the time. No wonder He didn’t feel he could answer it even after 3 days of my fasting and a year of searching, there wasn’t an answer that could satisfy me throughout my entire life given my own high standards I would impose on myself and others having found “the only true and livin church on the face of the earth”.

If I had’ve asked “should I join”? That might have been easier than “is it true and should I join” which I’m starting to believe is a very complex question. Because, as we have seen, it is true, at times, it isn’t, and eventually He knew I would probably see that — and struggle as I have done so many times in my church existence given my personality. For example, the Book of Mormon may be true in that its ideas are sound, however, it may not be a historical record and is therefore not true…but the end result is good for men who try to live by it and use it as a conduit for personal inspiration. Therefore, God gives confirmations that people should believe it when it really will be good for them.

Thanks FC above for for the analogy in positive psychology — I’m having a bit of trouble seeing how it fits with what I’m doing here, but it gives me something to think about and I’m thankful you are thinking. I understand the role of strengths and that we should focus on them, rather than miring ourselves in weakness. In my case, positive thinking is not my strength, but dwelling on the negative does not breed happiness — not at all. I feel I must choose positivity and do my best with the uphill battle — to be productive in spite of my genetic tendencies.

Another question — if I said to an Apostle — “I asked God if it was true and I should join and got an immediate powerful spiritual experience However, I now believe that the revelation was that it was literally true for that season of my life until I matured in the gospel. I now believe it has elements of truth, and elements of non-truth, and have adjusted my commitment, and have chosen not to hold a TR — and am actually happier”.

How might he respond? And to what extent does it matter how he might respond? [this is a very good conversation for me by the way, and it represents an important stone I have not yet completely overturned and explored in my deconstruction/reconstruction].

I’m sorry if my analogies don’t come across clearly. Sometimes I think I live in a world of my own personal meaning. A blind man can not(or realizes it is almost pointless at some point) ask god or the question of why can’t I see?! Instead they realize a better question. What can I do with the “gifts” I have been given?! In excepting they have lost thier sight they focus on thier hearing and other Seneca which become quite acute in response. The analogy here is that at one point in time you had experinces that you are seeking affirmations from god were true. Or true in the way you thought them to be. You are looking for validation from him but your current “gifts” may not be manifestations from god. I believe they are gifts. The gift of faith or spiritual manifestation from god. Trying to force the “gift” back into the picture may not produce fruit or at least not in a time table you might be happy with. So instead focus on the talents you have. From in outward view I see a person that cares for others, tries planting fruit to see it it bears forth good fruit(in act of faith). Is persevering ( a gift) inspire of historic issues. Empathy for others(another gift). You have these gifts that can help yourself and others even inside the church. But you wonder why god does not bless you with the reoccurance of spiritual manifestation to your testimony. A man who becomes blind often wonders why he no longer has the” gift ” of sight. It seems unfair that most do and he once had it. Accepts that he can’t see anymore and focuses on his other gifts he/she becomes happier. You can’t force the issue of god to give you this gift of manifestation. Maybe it will happen, maybe it won’t. But dwelling on it will positively make you unhappy(see what I did there )

As a teenager, I had prayed for comfort from God one night and felt like a spiritual sedative had overcome my body, and I got up from the prayer really believing in God, accepting that Christ existed (on faith) but not believing in any given church (I was in a protestant church at the time)…Then at about 19, I met a Mormon returned missionary in university. As an investigtaor I attended church, asked God “Is the LDS Church true and should I be a member of it?”. After about a year of this, several fasts, regular church attendance, reading scripture and living a clean life, and a 3 -Day fast, I got no answer at all…I then abandoned my investigation as Moroni 3:5 seemed like a hollow promise…then going forward several months later, without a philosophy, without any plans to join another church, one night, on a whim, knelt down and prayed and asked “Is the LDS Church true and should I be a member of it?”. I felt a very strong spiritual witness. It was very powerful, but not as powerful as the teenager experience that convinced me to believe in God…But it was enough to convince me to join the Church, persist through many serious obstacles, serve a mission, get married in the temple, and serve in a lot of higher profile callings.

But now my question — I had this revelation which essentially told me spiritually that the church was true and I should join…Is it possible that revelation is situational? That at those early points in my life before and during my mission, God gave me the answers I was seeking because he knew they would help me make some good choices during that period in my life? That he gives similar revelations to others who pray if they should join the Catholic, Seventh Day Adventists, and Jehovah’s Witnesses church? Or be a born again Christian — that He sees men who are ready to commit to a philosophy, and therefore, gives them an answer so at least they will improve themselves, and have something to guide them…i don’t want to turn my back on those experiences, but frankly, they are not enough for me anymore…I welcome your thoughts on this.

Personally I think most revelations should be viewed in terms of when they were received and who they appear to be intended for specifically and why. I could see God revealing something to an individual or small group thousands of years ago that is absolutely not applicable to most people nowadays. In your case, I see some possible ways you could interpret this experience other than as a final confirmation that almost everything the Church teaches and does is 100% true and right for everyone. It could simply be your own emotions that were triggered and not necessarily related to God at all or it could be that God was simply sending the message that it would be good for you to join the Church at that time compared to other alternatives but that wouldn’t necessarily mean it is good for everyone or that it is anywhere near perfect.

And this is why I always read DA’s posts…

Thanks SD; I understand that spiritual experiences can be very meaningful to people but personally I feel like I read way too much into them for years and it’s not really fair to blame God for that. I know that many non-Mormons continue to have similar experiences as well so that’s one reason why I don’t try to connect everything to the Church nearly as much as I did before. Now I think God will typically let people believe whatever they want to without correcting them in most cases and even if he cares about people in a personal way and answers their prayers that still doesn’t necessarily mean he is actually confirming and directly supporting everything they have been taught to believe.