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  • #207144
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I’m sure this has been covered previously, but I couldn’t find it. What does everyone else do about their extended family? As in parents/siblings. My husband is now supportive of my beliefs, whatever they may or may not be, and I don’t particularly feel like I owe anyone else an explanation. However, you can just tell when someone isn’t wearing garments. Last night I wore my winter coat indoors for the entirety of my nephew’s birthday party so that no one would notice a suspicious lack of lines under my shirt. I don’t really dress differently than I did when I wore garments, and I’m more careful when I’m around any family or in-laws, but I’m just not willing to go so far as to wear extra clothes under my clothes to imitate garments. And my family is not the kind that will accept that kind of decision – everything is very black and white for them. I feel like I’m under a microscope at every family event, and I want to take control of the situation, but I don’t want to force any uncomfortable and potentially damaging conversations.

    :silent:

    Help?

    #261000
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Live authentically. What you wear as underwear is no-one’s business. Burn no bridges. Go slowly, and find things to share in common with relatives.

    I know, a lot of trite statements. But hey!

    The reality is that Paul dealt with this idea that some members of the early Christian church had a hard time with eating non Kosher food. His advice? Don’t make an issue of it.

    #261001
    Anonymous
    Guest

    As wayfarer said, my best advice is to not eat meat among those who abstain from meat. In other words, lacking deep psychological issues that are exacerbated by wearing garments, wear them when you are with your family or in situations where you don’t want to make an issue of it.

    As for telling the folks about anything, why do it? I mean that seriously. Think about why you feel like you need to tell anyone details of your struggles if you’re confident they won’t understand and that it will cause more difficult issues.

    Why do you feel the need to tell them?

    #261002
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Meoclew,

    Telling extended family is such an individual thing, that it’s really impossible for me to give you advice about what you should do, but I’ll share some thoughts about my own experiences.

    I did eventually tell my parents. It was hard, but I had no choice, as they were coming to town for my daughter’s temple marriage. I just sat down with them and explained that I wasn’t going to be attending the wedding, and that it was because I wasn’t a believer anymore. I didn’t get into why, I reassured them that I was very happy that my daughter was marrying in the temple, and that I was still the same person as always. They were surprised, but accepting… a little heart-broken, but loving. In the intervening years, I’ve had very few conversations that turned to that topic. Occasionally, my mom will tell me that she hopes I can make it back to the temple someday, but it is with so much love and caring and with a total lack of condemnation, that I don’t mind. It’s nice to know that my mom still loves me. Now, in my particular case, I didn’t have a choice, due to the wedding… I had to tell them. Without that motivation, I may not have brought it up. Yet, there was a certain amount of relief that came with letting them know.

    Holding it all inside is damaging personally, and has a tendency to cause emotional separation between you and your loved ones that you don’t tell. Even if they don’t know why, you now have to be careful around them, and that causes walls to go up… I agree with Ray that you don’t HAVE to tell them, but you should consider if it would be more harmful to tell them or not to tell them. There will be harm if you tell them… there will be harm if you don’t… If you tell them, there will likely be immediate harm that will hopefully, but not certainly, taper off over a long period of time. If you don’t tell them, there will be harm to your relationship that will build over a long period of time, as you become more and more emotionally disconnected from them… you have to decide which way you want to manage it, and it completely depends on you and your situation.

    In my own case, I delayed telling any family members, other than my wife, for many years, until the aforementioned temple marriage was approaching. It was difficult to hold it in. I felt increasingly trapped, knowing I would eventually have to come out of the closet with my children and my parents. I sank into depression, and eventually sought out a therapist. As I’ve said on these forums before, he helped me to latch onto a wonderfully freeing concept: that family secrets are not good. With that in mind, I was able to set a new agenda for myself, which was for me to control my relationship with others, and not to let the circumstances control it… the trapped feeling went away and I haven’t been back to a therapist since. Your mileage may (will) vary, because you are you and your family is your family… I’m just talking about my situation.

    One thing to reflect upon is that as I’ve undergone a complete transition, I still work to reassure family and friends that I’m still the same guy they’ve always known and that my faith transition hasn’t changed me. If that is indeed the case, then why should it matter to family and friends? My relationship with them was not based on the church. It was a shared context, for sure, but I realize now more than ever, that our relationships were cemented on their own. The church didn’t define, endorse or support our relationships… if your relationships are strong, telling one of your family or friends that you are no longer a believer shouldn’t have a long-term effect their treatment of you. I caveat this with the idea that the golden rule still applies, no matter what your belief. If you want them to respect your leaving the faith, then you have to equally respect their staying in it. If you try to convince them… or if you treat them like they are less-evolved, or intellectually inferior, then expect to have those attitudes reflected back to you.

    #261003
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Just to be clear, I didn’t mean to say you shouldn’t tell them. I meant that I think you need to figure out why you feel compelled to tell them. Lacking a compelling reason, wearing the garment around extended family isn’t a big deal, imo; with a compelling reason, it can be a big deal. You need to make that decision.

    When you figure out why you feel as you do, you can make a rational decision – like On Our Own describes. Until you figure it out, you risk acting emotionally and “splattering” it at people.

    Ultimately, I believe in the Book of Mormon concept of being an agent unto yourself.

    #261004
    Anonymous
    Guest

    For me I just live as authentically as possible without making a big deal out of it. I do not pronounce my disbelief neither do I run from it, but when questioned I usually give the short version on any particular subject. People get it in small bites that way. I have never been a big fan of formal announcements. I believe you just let things happen over time.

    I don’t not wear garments anymore for reasons I shall not go into here. When questioned I simply say I am confident God does not care one bit about what underwear I have on and leave it at that. I do not go into polyandry and all the other issues at any given time. I always just respond to specific questions. Small steps are less traumatic than giant leaps.

    #261005
    Anonymous
    Guest

    When that time comes that you have to talk to others, I have found it best NOT to go into any specifics unless you absolutely have to. Those never seem to turn into productive conversations. I try to frame things in terms of MY viewpoints or preferences, instead of trying to explain why I think the way I do now, or prove that I am right (which by default is an attack on their beliefs).

    Examples of things I might say:

  • That just doesn’t have the same meaning to me anymore. I don’t feel connected to it.

  • There are controversial issues in our history and doctrinal development that cause me to look at everything different now.
  • I haven’t found that to be useful in my life, but I remain open to having my mind changed on the matter.
  • I’m doing things differently now, and I am happier this way. Things make more sense to me, personally.
  • Diving into the details of history and controversy are not productive. People who are unaware of those things will be shocked and become defensive, and probably won’t believe you are telling the truth. People who are already aware of those things won’t need you to explain anything or defend your changed views. They already understand.

    FWIW, It’s a tough road to tell parents and family. But in the long run, it seems most get over the shock. The most important thing is to continue SHOWING them you are happy and love them. Love them first, and you will be loved.

#261006
Anonymous
Guest

Meoclew wrote:

And my family is not the kind that will accept that kind of decision – everything is very black and white for them. I feel like I’m under a microscope at every family event, and I want to take control of the situation, but I don’t want to force any uncomfortable and potentially damaging conversations.

If they love you, why do you think they would not accept your grown up adult decision? Maybe they just don’t understand you, so what they believe is right or wrong is about them. The temple is so sacred to them. The commandments are absolute truths to them. Staying 100% obedient is the only way to happiness for them.

You might be able to understand them better than they can understand you and where you are at. Take that into consideration on how you talk to them and how you frame things and which topics to discuss and which things to avoid as much as you possibly can. If you know it is sacred to them, you wouldn’t mock it and hurt their feelings, would you? No…you’ll talk about it sacredly and respectfully, even if you don’t believe it the way they do. So, use Mormon-speak best you can…out of respect for them. But always be honest.

Some things to consider:

Is it because the first assumption is there is sin in your life affecting your choices? If so, maybe you reassure them up front where you are in life, and take that off the table.

Is it because it is black and white to them and just unacceptable to not wear garments? If so, what about faith and scriptures that teach us to seek truth for ourselves? and scriptures like D&C 50:40?

Do they know you are sincerely trying to be happy, and in your experience, your decisions come from hours of searching and pondering about it…not because you could care less about it? If they don’t understand your sincerity, be concise but share how you are at wanting to learn and you want to be happy.

Also…be prepared to listen. You may get sermons and warnings. Things you’ve heard a gajillion times at church that boil your blood. But just take it in and nod, and say, “That’s good to think about.” (You don’t have to agree to listen) ….Build bridges with them, even though you know you are both chasms away from each other on the perspective.

Don’t be defensive to them. Be open. I like to ask them questions so they can talk, and I can see where they are…not because I have to think like them or convince them to see my way, but because I want to know where they are so I know how to talk to them…and I think it helps them feel better to talk and share their testimony. Ask them how we can know what is black and white, and you’d really like to know what is right for you. Again, let them feel you are sincere, not angry or bitter.

All of that is my advice. But first and foremost, I have had to learn to control my compulsion to want to talk about it. Sometimes my assumption that something so important to me must be a huge problem for everyone else…and in reality, sometimes it just isn’t. Check your assumptions about them.

In my family, I have a brother and 2 sisters who no longer wear garments. We notice it. No one says anything unless they bring it up. But we’re all thinking about it and wondering how they’re doing, and then we go our way and live our lives.

IOW, don’t make it an issue if it isn’t one…maybe a short-term strategy is to lay low while you’re still navigating your way. Just be authentic, do your thing, take your coat off, be ready to react if necessary…but don’t stir the pot by initiating the talk.

#261007
Anonymous
Guest

Thanks everyone for your advice.

Wayfarer wrote:

Live authentically. What you wear as underwear is no-one’s business. Burn no bridges. Go slowly, and find things to share in common with relatives.


Cadence wrote:

For me I just live as authentically as possible without making a big deal out of it. I do not pronounce my disbelief neither do I run from it, but when questioned I usually give the short version on any particular subject. People get it in small bites that way. I have never been a big fan of formal announcements. I believe you just let things happen over time.

I love this. That’s exactly how I would prefer to go about it.

For the sake of clarification, I have little to no actual desire to “come out” to my family. It is such a personal decision that I don’t feel the need to justify it or even explain it to anyone (except my husband).

There are two reasons that I feel that the issue is inevitably going to come up in the near future:

1. My wearing of G’s has been brought up in the past. Even though I did my utmost to wear them faithfully, there were occasions where I was not wearing them because of exercise/late laundry/period/lingering in my swimsuit after the beach/etc. and I was frequently called out by family members. At the time, I always felt awful and like I was putting my soul at risk. I know better now, but because of that and a few other factors, I count myself as having “deep psychological issues” (as Ray put it) regarding G’s. So, I know that my family is paying attention to my underwear and that they likely won’t let it slide. When it does come up, I want to be prepared for the conversation so that I can direct it in a loving, understanding way.

Brian Johnston wrote:

When that time comes that you have to talk to others, I have found it best NOT to go into any specifics unless you absolutely have to. Those never seem to turn into productive conversations. I try to frame things in terms of MY viewpoints or preferences, instead of trying to explain why I think the way I do now, or prove that I am right (which by default is an attack on their beliefs).


Heber13 wrote:

You might be able to understand them better than they can understand you and where you are at. Take that into consideration on how you talk to them and how you frame things and which topics to discuss and which things to avoid as much as you possibly can. If you know it is sacred to them, you wouldn’t mock it and hurt their feelings, would you? No…you’ll talk about it sacredly and respectfully, even if you don’t believe it the way they do. So, use Mormon-speak best you can…out of respect for them. But always be honest.

So I have to figure out a way to do just that.

2. Since the recent Missionary announcement, my little sister is now filling out her papers for her mission. Whenever a family member goes through the temple for the first time, all the TR holding members of the family join in. So, even if my family becomes tactful enough to not attempt to call me to repentance for my underwear choices, I will still be having some sort of conversation about why **I can’t be there with her for such a once-in-a-lifetime occasion (and some people, like On Own Now, have to deal with that when children are getting married, which seems far harder). Currently, I’m considering just making something up so I can say that I just couldn’t make it, but I’m not sure lying like that would really save me any emotional pain.

**I know that many people here have found ways to still feel comfortable attending the temple and holding a current recommend, and I absolutely respect that and in no way find them less worthy. It is only that for me, personally, I can’t do that without feeling like I’m being dishonest to everyone involved, including myself.

But reading through everyone’s advice and experiences has helped me feel calmer overall. My family is going to find a way to love me no matter what, even if they think I’ve “strayed.” My desire to have a fool-proof game plan before the event is unrealistic, so I’ll just have to handle it as lovingly as I can when or if the time comes. :angel:

#261008
Anonymous
Guest

Quote:

Currently, I’m considering just making something up so I can say that I just couldn’t make it, but I’m not sure lying like that would really save me any emotional pain.

Of course you understand your family dynamics the best, but I think I would rather hear that someone is genuinely struggling and so has decided not to go to the temple at this time, than to think that there was something else that was more important than attending the temple with them. Could you have a one-on-one conversation with your sister and talk to her about it, then let the rest of the family think what they may?

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