Thoughts on Spirits?

Speculation on this matter is all over the map. SDA’s and JW’s both believe that our spirit is a synonym for our breath and that when we die we are gone … until God reforms us in the resurrection from his perfect memory. In this thinking, any “spirits” we come into contact with would necessarily be demons in disguise.

That of course is not our doctrine. There was a book by a Mckonkie (not BRM). I believe it was called “Beyond the Veil.” It got as specific as anything I had ever seen in LDS speculation as to the status and hierarchy of spirits.

I believe that as JS taught that the spirit world is around us…I’ve had experiences that confirm this…What I wonder is about the laws they go by…I’ve heard (mostly from church culture or doctrine) that if you seek them through weegie boards etc., you are more likely to tap into the lower energies…once, I felt a very dark spirit without seeking any, I think maybe because in our home at the time there were multiple negative issues…Maybe I’m too stuck in time and space, but how can spirits exist without space and time?…What do you think about spirits?

I definitely believe in spirits (good and bad), precognition, and ESP. Why not? People continue to report experiences with these things to this day and I just don’t believe that all of them are lying or misinterpreting what they actually experienced so it is absolutely not the same thing as believing in unicorns, dragons, elves, hobgoblins, or whatever other absurd mythology or folklore that some skeptics like to categorize anything supernatural or paranormal with. On top of that, even if I am wrong about this it still wouldn’t directly cost me anything either way so I don’t see any real downside to believing exactly what I do until I see a better explanation. No, I don’t also believe in Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster, chupacabras, astrology, tarot cards, Atlantis crystals, etc.

I’m not going to pretend to understand exactly how these things work or what they mean I just think some legitimate experiences simply cannot be explained by science very well at this point and I fully expect this to continue to be the case long after I am gone so there’s no point in denying it. Hardcore skeptics can believe whatever they want but personally I think that acting like these things should not even be seriously considered as a possibility and that anyone that thinks otherwise must be some superstitious and gullible dupe is just as dogmatic and overly simplistic as some of the worst outdated religious doctrines. For me, what many people genuinely perceive as being real or important without being able to prove it is just as interesting and worthwhile to pay some attention to if not more so than what can be directly verified on demand.

I definitely believe in spirits (good and bad), precognition, and ESP. Why not? … No, I don’t also believe in Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster, chupacabras, astrology, tarot cards, Atlantis crystals, etc. ?

Do you remember that bit in Ghostbusters with the job interview?

Janine Melnitz: Do you believe in UFOs, astral projections, mental telepathy, ESP, clairvoyance, spirit photography, telekinetic movement, full trance mediums, the Loch Ness monster and the theory of Atlantis?

Winston Zeddemore: Ah, if there’s a steady paycheck in it, I’ll believe anything you say.

Yes, this thread definitely reminded me of that line in Ghostbusters along with the books “The Demon Haunted World” (pro-skepticism) and “The Conscious Universe” (pro paranormal investigation). The general perception seems to be that if you believe in one thing that sounds unusual and unlikely based on most people’s typical everyday experience then you must be overly credulous and uncritical to the point that you are likely to believe almost anything you hear. Basically I think this general attitude is prejudiced and unfair and in my opinion it would be better to just let people believe whatever they want and have their fun in peace as long as they aren’t really hurting anyone.

Yes, this thread definitely reminded me of that line in Ghostbusters along with the books “The Demon Haunted World” (pro-skepticism) and “The Conscious Universe” (pro paranormal investigation). The general perception seems to be that if you believe in one thing that sounds unusual and unlikely based on most people’s typical everyday experience then you must be overly credulous and uncritical to the point that you are likely to believe almost anything you hear. Basically I think this general attitude is prejudiced and unfair and in my opinion it would be better to just let people believe whatever they want and have their fun in peace as long as they aren’t really hurting anyone.

Totally agree with you…I don’t think all things are equally unlikely, or paranormal…The existence of a Giant Octopus is more plausible than that of a poltergeist, and historical visits by aliens are more plausible to my mind than someone who claims that they can influence the lottery numbers. Telepathy is more likely than reincarnation, I think, and something like Atlantis is so open to interpretation anyway (is it an island in the Aegean off Greece? Or in the middle of the Atlantic?)

Not only are different unverifiable claims not equally likely or unlikely, for some of them there is more value in giving them the benefit of the doubt than others and even if something sounds extremely unlikely that doesn’t necessarily mean that it is impossible. The way I look at it is not that people should always need or expect undeniable proof in order to believe something but instead what I think is generally a better and more realistic approach is to simply consider the reasons to believe something versus any reasons to doubt it or defer judgment and then try to balance which reasons carry more weight for you in a meaningful way. For example, on the surface the idea of Bigfoot sounds more likely to me than spirits because we already know that new species of animals are occasionally found so it makes sense that there could theoretically be other previously unknown animals hiding out in remote locations.

However, I feel content to just assume that Bigfoot does not exist until better evidence turns up to support this idea mostly because it doesn’t directly cost me anything to doubt its existence or buy me anything if it turns out that it does exist. On the other hand, if someone sees their grandpa’s ghost then this will generally be comforting to them to think that he is not really gone forever and maybe death will not be the end for them either so to take an experience like this and try to dismiss it as some kind of daydream or figment of the imagination just because you don’t understand any other way that this should theoretically be possible would basically be trading down for no worthwhile reason in my opinion. Why is it so important to understand everything and always be right to begin with? Even if people turn out to be wrong maybe that isn’t always such a bad thing by itself.

However, I feel content to just assume that Bigfoot does not exist until better evidence turns up to support this idea mostly because it doesn’t directly cost me anything to doubt its existence or buy me anything if it turns out that it does exist. On the other hand, if someone sees their grandpa’s ghost then this will generally be comforting to them to think that he is not really gone forever and maybe death will not be the end for them either so to take an experience like this and try to dismiss it as some kind of daydream or figment of the imagination just because you don’t understand any other way that this should theoretically be possible would basically be trading down for no worthwhile reason in my opinion. Why is it so important to understand everything and always be right to begin with? Even if people turn out to be wrong maybe that isn’t always such a bad thing by itself.

The interesting thing about Bigfoot and Nessie is that they seem reasonable, and then folk start veering into paranormal stuff. Bigfoot is associated with demons and UFOs in some quarters. Likely candidates for lost beasts include the Tasmanian tiger, Orang Pendak, Giant Octopus etc. More so than Mothman (which always struck me as a demonic rather than an animal phenomenon)

The way things are going, aliens are more plausible than fairies, but that’s just the fashion of things. However, there are numerous similarities between grays and faery lore. Fairies used to abduct people, visit in the night, were small, had fantastic abilties etc.

An interesting article here (but by no means the best take on it):

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/UFOs/ufofairies.htm

[Edited to add: I cannot vouch for other content on the website.]

This talks about Ultraterrestrials, beings which are native to this planet. Some people think that they may account for a lot of supernatural phenomenon, including ghosts. it also accounts why “aliens” might be so interested in the environment of a planet that they “don’t come from”.

Joseph Smith’s experiences have sometimes been explained as ultraterrestrial, demonic, and/or contactee/abductee. There are certainly some similarities, such as the bright lights etc.

A second experience was while I was working out in a gym,I noticed a person in the gym who seemed to emanate evil. I didn’t necessarily feel there were attendant spirits, but I knew I didn’t want to do anything with him.

I’ve experienced that. One guy looked at me somewhere once, and it was like being shot through the head. Really nasty, I wondered if he was a gangster or a criminal type.

Bear in mind though… that some of this is our subconscious mind registering signals that we don’t pick up knowingly, such as body language, awkwardness, possible hostility etc, that are not necessarily evil. I’ve been accused of having “negative energy” by some New Agey types. I don’t think that they really knew what I was talking about, and it was more to do with the fact that I wouldn’t agree with most of what they said, and I was being socially awkward. A lot of what they were saying struck me as being ill-thought out trash. (Later on, another New Agey type described me as having an incredible aura, so I suppose I can’t be all bad.) I thought that they were entitled to their beliefs but that I didn’t want to agree with them.

I’ve also had to put up with a lot at times in my life, so I probably “wear” some of that in my face. People sometimes think I am unhappy, when I feel completely content. When they mention this to me, it has the opposite effect to what they intend, perhaps.

Regarding spiritual manifestations, yes, I had a particularly odd/sinister one before my endowment. Some would say it was opposition.

Thank you for your comments.

It’s interesting to get different perspectives on spirits.

I’m inclined to believe that like we’ve all heard in one church lesson or another…

It’s like tuning into a radio station – except it’s more about energy rather than radio waves.

Obviously, spirits, not having brains are not dependent on cognitive function.

However, since we are sorta attached to our brains – at least in this life – our cognitive functions do affect not only if we tune in or not, but also how we interpret any spiritual experiences we have.

Personally, it’s pretty chaotic in my mind. Maybe it’s partly that I’m a woman & partly I just think a lot – so thoughts tend to be more intricate – massive intellectual & emotional multi-tasking. Most of the time, my mind is too “loud” or busy to tune in to other similar frequencies. It seems as if to develop spiritual awareness, we need to develop an awareness of our awareness… like the idea of “maintaing one’s higher estate.”

Sam, as you implied, often times it seems like how we interpret others’ energy depends on our own energy.

There’s this idea of shadow self – I think Carl Jung coined the phrase… maybe that’s related.