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I know those sound like crazy companions, I also know my insight won’t be new to this boards method of thinking, but I love the insight it gave me. I grew up in the town in California where the two Steve’s (Jobs and Wozniak) created Apple. I was in high school when they made it. We grew up with the encouragement, that if they could do what they did, so could we. Now many years later I have family, and friends who are part of Apple. The other day we were discussing a moment in Steve Jobs life where the media and other industry guru’s were pressing Steve to get Apple to invest in humanitarian issues,etc. They were pointing at all the efforts of other big companies such as Nike, Microsoft, The Bill Gates Foundation, etc. The pressure was becoming unrelenting. Jobs reply was, “No, Apple is in the business of building technology. And that’s where are energy goes.” He said employees as individuals were welcome to create, support, etc. philanthropic operations but as a company they were going to be different. They were just going to make products.
Then the other day I was watching a Trump family interview. In the interview the kids went on to explain what a great dad Donald was. They explained how hard he worked, the long hours, the weekend projects, etc. The interviewer questioned them closer. If he was so hard at work, didn’t the kids feel slighted. They answered no and gave reasons to support their feelings. What caught me was they didn’t have an issue with how he parented them. They saw good in it. One of the kids even said, “We weren’t a soccer in the yard family, but dad loved his job, we got to go with him to his job, watching him work, feel the energy, so on.” A light dinged in my head.Trump wasn’t typical and he didn’t feel the need to be typical.
The insight on Trump connected with Jobs comments and that great understanding took root. Both men (I’m not saying everything they did was great or that I admire them fully) selected a way to be. It was a value to them. Both were atypical and they didn’t let anyone else shift that. Were the decisions right or wrong – only they can judge. But their life results weren’t a wipe out. Most of all – they both were at peace with their choices.
Which brings me to staylds. Maybe being true to the truth in us is our greatest contribution to this cause of religion/spirituality. Instead of trying to fit the outside mold requests that we feel or hear. Maybe we have to square our hearts with the Divine – or ourselves- and move forward. And only in the years to come will we see the positive impact we can make.
That was my life inspiring thought for the weekend. Thanks for letting me share. It feels good to be able to share.
Hi mom3. Great thoughts. Makes sense to me.
Say hi to your sig other and perhaps we can visit sometime this winter.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2
Some really nice examples, thanks for sharing. I’m aware of the pressure I place on myself to appear as a good Mormon to other people. In sacrament mtg on Sunday I started developing a headache and wanted to eat one of the kids sandwiches with the painkiller I’d take. I hesitated as it was fast sunday and didn’t want to be seen eating.
After a while I had the sandwich anyway as I knew that’s what my body needed (ibuprofen and empty stomachs are apparently a bad mix). It was a very small moment of little significance – not quite drinking beer on the porch – but it helped me realise a little more than I need to be true to myself and let people think what they think.
Thanks for this post. I probably will end up using it in some sort of church setting at some point. Excellent thoughts. There is a principle in daoist writings called ziran (自然) “self so”, or “according to one’s nature”. Jobs did what came naturally.
Thanks everyone for giving my idea’s your support. That means a lot. I’ve spent all day still wrapped up in the thought of being authentic in all of my life. I wouldn’t say I’ve been inauthentic but I think we all get swept by tides of opinion or ideas, and sometimes we get carried away. Mackay11 – High five to you for taking responsibility for your wrestle with influence and taking care of your health. I believe the Savior himself is one of the best examples of that principle, and we often overlook it. In the book of John there is a short sentence that explains that Jesus rose early in the morning and went out to ponder and pray. Even he, who is called the greatest of all, nourished himself so that he could serve others – in whatever capacity he was needed. Cwald – You got it. We would love to get together with you and Jwald. I know our lives are crazy through the holidays but the new year is a good time to renew. Keep in touch.
Steve Jobs was not as much of a saint as people like to make out he is. People die in his factories, they use child labor, and do not pay the workers properly.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/feb/20/foxconn-raise-wages-apple-contractor mom3 wrote:Maybe being true to the truth in us is our greatest contribution to this cause of religion/spirituality. Instead of trying to fit the outside mold requests that we feel or hear. Maybe we have to square our hearts with the Divine – or ourselves- and move forward. And only in the years to come will we see the positive impact we can make.
Yes!
And I find it a little ironic and very interesting that my patriarchal blessing points me in this same direction.
SamBee wrote:Steve Jobs was not as much of a saint as people like to make out he is.
People die in his factories, they use child labor, and do not pay the workers properly.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/feb/20/foxconn-raise-wages-apple-contractor
i do not disagree in the least. I might even say he was distinctly unsaintly — but what of it? Jobs was true to his nature, and that nature had a fair amount of self-servingness to it.there is a parable of the scorpion and the frog. in the end, the scorpion is true to his nature, and the frog dies.
while we would like people to be benevolent, and we value that, there are times when benevolence may not be indicated. the frog was benevolent, and suffered as a result. a frog truer to a fearful nature (of scorpions) would have never sucked into the scorpions claims.
Jobs availed himself of a culture willing to promote child labor, poor wages, and totalitarian conditions. I Les Miserables, Jean Valjean had some bad things happen in his factories. what is good? what is evil? the nature of the capitalist and entrepreneur is to exploit. I don’t like it, but the alternatives are tough to find. Personally, I was a union worker, and I saw the value and parity of a union when the employer is a monopsonist with respect to hiring (aka only job in town). Chinese aren’t allowed to organize outside of the party, which puts the chinese exploitation of Apple factory workers into a whole new level of hypocrisy.
where is zion? zion is fled.
SamBee- Thanks for the links. I put a parentheses clause in my initial post stating “I’m not saying everything they did was great or that I admire them fully.” I meant that completely. We can have a long discussion about their genuine goodness or lack of goodness. I just found the idea that they didn’t manage their life/business choices by what everyone around them suggested. I found it very insightful idea, especially as I function in a church that can seem very one dimensional in it’s behavior requirements.
In the days since I posted the original thought I’ve allowed my mind to observe the same objective in religious people. I have considered Mother Theresa, a woman I do admire. I have looked at Ghandi, Jesus Christ, John the Baptist, Peter and Paul – the quarreling apostles. All of these lives and their actions are teaching me this freeing and hopeful principle that if I live my life in harmony with my inner calling, I believe in the long run my life and it’s objective will be worthwhile. And that fulfillment, in my estimation is inspiring in a very Godly sense.
Sam – I assure you I see plenty of flaws in the men I used for my model. Those flaws seem inherent in all of us to one extent or another. Thank you for bringing insight to the idea. I really appreciated it.
SamBee, don’t believe everything in the US media on Foxconn in China. There’s a lot of anti chinese propaganda flying around given they’re a credible threat to USA’s number one spot. I think Jeff Lindsay (apologist blogger, living in Shanghai) recently wrote about the proven lies one US paper had written about Foxconn. I’ll look it up.
mackay11 wrote:SamBee, don’t believe everything in the US media on Foxconn in China. There’s a lot of anti chinese propaganda flying around given they’re a credible threat to USA’s number one spot.
I think Jeff Lindsay (apologist blogger, living in Shanghai) recently wrote about the proven lies one US paper had written about Foxconn. I’ll look it up.
This isn’t anti-Chinese propaganda, Apple uses
underagelabor, people die in its factoriesand are not paid properly. One of the sites was English. ‘Poisoned’ Chinese workers turn to Apple for help (from another non-American source)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12550429 Quote:Chinese workers injured while making touchscreens for mobile devices, including iPhones, have written to Apple asking it to do more to help them.
Some 137 workers suffered adverse health effects following exposure to a chemical, known as n-hexane.
They claim that the Taiwanese factory owner has not given them enough compensation.
Apple did not offer comment on the letter.
Five workers, including 27-year-old Jia Jingchuan, have signed a letter to chief executive officer Steve Jobs, asking Apple to offer more help over the incidents.
Western employers are using manufacturing methods which would have shamed nineteenth century slum factories.
This is why I get angry when Steve Jobs is portrayed as some kind of guru or saint.
We in the west are so disconnected from this, we don’t some to realize what is going on.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/26/wintek_poisoning/ More workers poisoned by supplier for Apple, Nokia – Nokia responds. Apple doesn’t
Employee worked to death
Others have just died by poisoning.
SamBee wrote:
This isn’t anti-Chinese propaganda, Apple usesunderagelabor, people die in its factoriesand are not paid properly. One of the sites was English. ‘Poisoned’ Chinese workers turn to Apple for help (from another non-American source)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12550429 Quote:Chinese workers injured while making touchscreens for mobile devices, including iPhones, have written to Apple asking it to do more to help them.
Some 137 workers suffered adverse health effects following exposure to a chemical, known as n-hexane.
They claim that the Taiwanese factory owner has not given them enough compensation.
Apple did not offer comment on the letter.
Five workers, including 27-year-old Jia Jingchuan, have signed a letter to chief executive officer Steve Jobs, asking Apple to offer more help over the incidents.
Western employers are using manufacturing methods which would have shamed nineteenth century slum factories.
This is why I get angry when Steve Jobs is portrayed as some kind of guru or saint.
We in the west are so disconnected from this, we don’t some to realize what is going on.
I agree, Steve Jobs was a complete (insert insult of choice). He was apparently a selfish bully based on everything I’ve read. And I agree that life’s tough for many manufacturing employees. But this is not an Apple problem. It’s a western consumerism problem. Look around your house. Look at your clothes. We are all buying into ‘Made in China.’
I guess we’ve gone a bit off topic.
I guess the point is that even though lots of people (including you and I) criticised SJ for his approach, he didn’t care and didn’t try to spin his image. I know I do care about what people at church think about me and maybe I should learn to care a little less.
i find Steve Jobs and Donald Trump both highly objectionable men driven by greed.
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