Did evolution cause my faith crisis?

Ok…so we’re opposites… I tolerate messes too easily….and you are double posting…

But more importantly, why should the stunning wonder of evolution and the architecture of the brain be anything other than a witness of the divinity of the Way?

To peer into science is to appreciate the wonder of nature. This is what Joseph meant, in my impression, when he observed that when we observe the wonder of nature, we are witnessing god moving in his power and glory.

That all this natural order emerges without a manipulating hand, be it from god or otherwise, is a deeply moving spiritual experience to me.

Some enlightened LDS came to accept evolution as the way god created the universe…and mankind. I go a bit further, of course, that there was no intelligent design, no designer, no prime cause… Yes, the “power of god” always existed, and always shall. But there is no person from which that power emanates. It simply is.

I will refrain from posting that last comment at NOM.

I think the point of the scientific research is this.

… New research finds that these brain regions are more active in individuals with obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), which suggests they tend to be more distressed by moral quandaries than people without the condition.

While the majority of cases involve compulsions to clean and perform other rituals or routines, other forms of the disorder are marked by pathological sexual or religious guilt, suggesting OCD patients might be prone to moral hypersensitivity.

I don’t think it has anything to do with more or less evolved. It merely is saying that some individuals, have evolved with a mutation which we now call OCD, that gave them a unique adaptation to help survive an ancient environment. But today gives very little advantage…actually a negative trait…that also would make them less adaptive to organized religion because of the stress involved in moral quandaries and moral hypersensitivity…which tends to express itself in the form of faith crisis.

It might also create just the opposite in some…a truly black and white type of TBM…who must adapt to the religion entirely in order to adapt to the negative biological trait. I think the biology of OCD makes it very difficult to find a MIDDLE WAY.

I think there is something to that idea, cwald (that some people evolve biologically into people who can’t tolerate messiness), but I would posit that such an evolution moves many people into a church that appears to them to be more structured and “organized” while it pushes others from that same church when they come to see messiness and a lack of perfect order they had envisioned earlier. …

Exactly. That is why many folks, myself included, felt so betrayed and grieved and frustrated. Truly, an inoculation approach would benefit many folks like me…I should not have had to been exposed to so much warts after serving in the church for 35 years.

But, since I would posit I am WAY in the minority…the church probably will not do a such thing. I would expect that the leadership will regretfully and sympathetically consider us collateral damage tin order to protect the masses.

I accept that.

Yes Wayfarer. I will double post this thought. 🙂

Yes Wayfarer. I will double post this thought. 🙂

And I will double post my reply…

It might also create just the opposite in some…a truly black and white type of TBM…who must adapt to the religion entirely in order to adapt to the negative biological trait. I think the biology of OCD makes it very difficult to find a MIDDLE WAY.

I think it also may explain why so many folks who go through a faith crisis, including many here…do so because of severe depression and “religious guilt.”

Perhaps that is why so many TBMs can not understand what is happening to their loved ones who may suffer from OCD type disorders. It’s a deeply biological problem…and they simple cannot grasp it or understand it because they lack the mutation themselves.

There is no question that dualism served our ancestors well — the world was full of enemies, and a rapid and absolute detector: “Identify Friend or Foe”/IFF was a biological and evolutionary imperative. As well, when we observe the behavior of mammals and primates, this IFF skill is very obvious.

Recent MRI studies have been able to demonstrate some fascinating aspects of the architecture of the brain. When a person enters a new situation where people are present, the right amygdala — the seat of fear — is very active as a person scans the people in the room. When eye contact is made, then both the right and left amygdala become active, as a person is making a non-conscious connection with the other person at a fundamental emotional level. We are not really consciously aware this is happening, but it is a core transaction in a situation. Once a ‘decision’ is made by the emotional IFF operation of the amygdalae, our eyes move on to other evaluations. When the room is assessed, then the emotional mind makes a conclusion reflected in the autonomous nervous system — either we are comfortable, or we conclude that we need to get the hell out of there — or the latter can be to continue with our defenses firmly in place. All this is a non-conconscious emotional process.

The emotional mind thus makes binary decisions. As you noted, those with OCD have an overly defined sense of that IFF, even to the point of desiring order in any situation, be it amongst people or things.

But I fundamentally disagree with you that the MIDDLE WAY, as you put it, is at odds with the evolutionary construct. As you noted some people are more capable of adapting to complex, nuanced social situations, either through a mutation or simply natural selection. I would add, that the attractiveness to many of those NOT in one’s racial make-up is also part of a fundamental, evolutionary shift from fear-of-the-unknown to a natural, evolutionary shift toward unity and centrism.

Consider this: as mankind is now so numerous and globalized, the notion of tribalism is evolutionarily inferior to the idea of inclusivity. This isn’t just a move toward political correctness, but rather, the evolutionary way that life will accommodate the reality of dealing with populations larger than a tribe. Tribe works when one essentially can get to know each member — but when tribes exceed a certain size, then internecine fractures cause an overall breakdown, and a further tribalism toward the local tribe. in such cases, the tribe dehumanizes the ‘other’ and shuts its doors from external influence. I’m not sure that such a pure tribal concept can exceed the size of a typical ward or small community – at least in terms of evolution.

The attempt to systematize a tribe to a much larger construct — a national tribe of tribes, as it were, is unnatural as far as evolution is concerned — and requires structures that are inherently unstable. Nations do not endure, and the larger they are, the quicker they fall — at least in evolutionary time.

In my impression, tolerance for nations and institutionalized tribalism — for artificial constructs — is coming to an end. From an evolutionary point of view, the centrist is more likely to survive in a globalized world than an extremist — mainly because extremism requires a limit to dissenting information. The Middle Way consititutes the only viable, sustainable path in a world awash with information. True, tribes will close their doors to this globalization — but they do so at their peril. They will eventually become extinct like all organisms that do not adapt to evolutionary realities.

Very interesting post cwald. My first thought was an off track (as usual) response to:

If I get divorced, it will be because I cannot abide a messy house. I feel bad for jwald some days, because it stresses me out to the point where I cannot function. I get really angry spending time in a messy house. I hate chaos. I hate the clutter…put things away…where they belong…every time. My shop at school is immaculate. Spotless. Really. Our living area is spotless…mostly…because I’m unable to live otherwise.

I flashed back to early in my marriage and days of similar thoughts, though likely not as intense. I came to realize I ultimately had a choice, I could 1) live in a perfectly clean house by myself, or 2) Share my life and my space with my wife (and children). While there are still times of frustration the opportunity for close loving relationships far outweigh the satisfaction of having everything clean and orderly. I cannot imagine the intense emptiness that must come with living alone.

I think the same general idea goes for me and the church.

Thanks for that! :thumbup: