Five questions that have been bothering me

Thanks for your response Ray. I realize now that that may have sounded a little extreme.

I seriously doubt I’d ever commit suicide because I think you’re right that I can always keep believing. As long as there’s a chance this church is true, I’m staying actively involved in it. But I do think that if someone ever proved to me beyond any doubt that the LDS Church was not only false, but that there was no personal God or afterlife of any sort, I would have a very hard time keeping myself going. My life is just hard right now, and I would probably figure that if I’m going to face complete annihilation anyway, it would feel a little pointless to keep the fight going. I have talked to my parents a lot about all of my struggles and they know how dependent on this gospel I feel. I’m on medication and I’ve been to various mental health doctors.

I guess I don’t know for sure what I’d actually do if I became a strong atheist because I’ve never been in a situation where I totally stopped believing. I think there’s good reason to believe in some sort of higher power.

First, let me say that your statement about the value of your life depends upon belief in the church jumped right off the page to me — as Ray said, that’s not healthy.

Your beliefs will change and mature over time. After observing a lot of things in this world, the idea of an loving, caring god who condones suffering and genocide is a non-starter to me. But that’s just me — people can and should believe whatever uplifts them and helps then get through their lives.

But with the questions you’re asking, I don’t think you will end up believing in the same way you do now. If you continue reading and studying, the cognitive dissonance will force you to make a choice: either to stop reading unapproved materials, or re-evaluate your faith — your beliefs — and define a new framework. If you do the latter, if you embark on the path of authenticity we call the Middle Way, then your fear that life has no meaning without belief will prevent you from fully deconstructing your faith in order to create a new, enlightened framework. You will need to let go of belief in order to find true faith, in my humble opinion.

Your questions:

1. What exactly is the role of the prophet?

– to lead an inspired but earthly organization called ‘the Church’. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the term “Prophet” as used in the LDS church is a title of the President. Rather than thinking of “Prophecy” as fortune-telling, think of “Prophecy” as Paul did: it is the ability to make a claim on faith, not knowing if the given prophecy is true. Prophecy is the gap between what we know and what we think the cosmos is all about. It is inspired guesswork. And since guesses can differ from person to person, we collectively agree to an institutionalized version of guesses — and an institutionalized guesser — the Prophet.

Bear in mind that Brigham Young explicitly said he was a “Yankee guesser”. But given that we ‘follow the prophet’, we agree to use the terminology of his guessing. That agreement is called ‘faith’, and faith is not the same as ‘belief’, although 99% of members convolute the two.

2. Why does the LDS Church constanly get involved in political affairs, and is that really what Heavenly Father wants?

– If you read the talk by GBH entitled “Loyalty“, you’ll see that the Church views itself as the Kingdom of God on the earth and expects uncompromising loyalty on any issues the Church leaders choose to pursue in the public dialogue.

The church pursues political affairs because it views some as essential to enabling the growth and interests of the Church. If you have gone through the temple, you are committed to consecrating everything you have do and are to the Church, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the Earth… This is inherently a political and absolute act of loyalty.

As Gordon B Hinckley explains:

There are those who say, “The Church won’t dictate to me how to think about this, that, or the other, or how to live my life.”

No, I reply, the Church will not dictate to any man how he should think or what he should do. The Church will point out the way and invite every member to live the gospel and enjoy the blessings that come of such living. The Church will not dictate to any man, but it will counsel, it will persuade, it will urge, and it will expect loyalty from those who profess membership therein.

Is that clear enough of an answer to your question? Do you accept the answer?

For me, this issue, alone, leaves me with the position that the Church no longer has any moral authority to declare what I am to believe. Proposition 8 was inherently evil in denying rights for people who morally choose to marry, and the Church’s support for it left me in the position that supporting the church in a moral evil is to side with the oppressor. The church’s position vilified gay people who are not under the church’s authority — and that was wrong.

GBH gave a clear choice: either it is the Church and Kingdom of God, or it is nothing. I have found the Church and Kingdom of God much closer to home as a result.

3. “My guilt was swept away”.

– The experience of Enos is a personal one — one which I have felt as well, as have many. When I was much younger, I became addicted to drugs and alcohol, largely because of the guilt associated with them inculcated into me by the church. As I went into recovery, I had a spiritual experience whereby my addiction, and all associated guilt, was swept away. I came to fundamentally understand that grace precedes repentance and not the other way around.

I believe this is the great secret of surviving in faith. Guilt must be swept away: if we do something wrong, we fix it and move on. If we are guilty for something we cannot change, then we need to recognize that guilt is simply wrong.

As Christians, we look toward the Christ and his grace. This deeply poignant symbol has to mean something. When faced with the sinner, the woman caught in the very act of adultery, his response was “thy sins are forgiven thee, go and sin no more.” Although the church twists this around to impute that the woman already repented, that isn’t the story: the stark reality is that Christ forgave, and his grace made repentance possible and not the other way around. We look toward the symbol, and live. That is the lesson of the liahona in Alma.

4. How am I supposed to view my Patriarchal blessing?

– like all scripture — some divine content mixed with the patriarch’s opinions.

5. This is a really immature question, but I need some clarity. For years I’ve been struggling to overcome masturbation/pornography…

– uh huh, as have we all. The reality is that the Church is currently obsessed with this issue, for some good reasons, and for others that don’t make sense.

The answer is to not be obsessed about this. If you are weighed under guilt here and it is adversely affecting your life, I suggest you get professional help that isn’t biased toward the false position that masturbation is sinful. Masturbation and pornography are not, in and of themselves, violations of the Law of Chastity. I oppose pornography for its exploitative tendencies of all involved — it is evil, but not in the way promoted by the church. And, most of what people think of as ‘pornography’ – catologs, R rated movies and the like, are not that.

I suspect that question 5 is at the heart of your disaffection — it is for many people. We don’t talk about it, but I have to say to you, clearly, that once you free yourself of the guilt on things you cannot change, you will rise to levels of happiness unimagined in your life. When you free yourself of the guilt of indulging in so-called taboos, the taboos no longer have any sway over your life.

What is really important is that your and my guilt makes us feel unworthy of the Lord’s grace, and thus we distance ourselves from receiving that which he freely gives us. (Now I mean these things deeply symbolically — I am speaking of spiritual things, not literal things). When we recognize grace, we recognize that our individual stumbles are part of the learning process, and our savior, like a coach, is there for us throughout and doesn’t reject us when we err.

Realizing that grace precedes change in our lives, then drawing on grace fundamentally changes the equation. Guilt is the denial of grace. Shed guilt and receive the gift of the atonement. Look to the Savior, and live.

Hi cm,

I really like Rebeccad’s format so I will follow suit.

1) We are all “defective children of God.” God loves us not for what we do but who we are and our relationship to him – we are his children. We are unique, we are good (at heart), we are His.

2) Nobody really knows the future. I believe this applies to prophets and patriarchs. There are even some theological quandaries with God knowing exactly how every detail will play out. (I’m not saying that he doesn’t still control and understand the boundaries of possibility and the final result of creation, but IMO he need not theologically need to know every detail.)If I give a name and a blessing to my daughter and I bless her with my hopes for her future and then later she is taken from us in a sudden accident and the blessing was not literally fulfilled – was I lying? Would God be somehow committed to fulfill all my words in the next life or after the resurrection or in some metaphorical way just because I said them as a priesthood holder? I do not believe so. I see blessings as powerful bonding moments, bonding ourselves to each other and to God. They have intense value – just not for predicting a certain or even ideal future.

3) The “M” word. I remember praying for help in overcoming this. Then after I failed – I knew that it was truly I that had failed. Surely God would keep his end of the bargain and send me all the spiritual help that was possible. So if even after receiving this help I were to succumb, it would be a double betrayal and proof that I was internally defective. There could be no fortification built strong enough, as long as I was inside – I would end up letting the enemy in the back door. This continued after going through the temple, the MTC, the mission field, etc. There were periods of resolve and commitment followed by backsliding. It very much made me question my worthiness not just as a priesthood holder but also as a son of Heavenly Father.

The good news is that marriage pretty much cured this problem. In essence, having an approved outlet for my sexual energies was the solution. Remember that attraction and intimacy in marriage is not only ok but is God given, some have even called it a “sacrament.” So in retrospect, was I a pervert? Was I a deviant? No. I was a young man having trouble “mastering” my God given physical nature. If you want to call it a sin, then fine. I won’t object. I would just point out that if it is a sin then it might be a sin akin to breaking a fast with a snack in the middle because you feel soooo hungry. Is it an infraction? Sure. Does it mean something significant about your character. I do not believe so and I don’t believe HF ever saw it that way either.

4) 18 is such a tumultuous age. I personally believe that I shifted my thoughts about 180 degrees from 18 till 21. Then my thoughts shifted again from 25 to 30. It gets better. The good stuff can be used as building blocks for the future. The bad stuff can be left in the rearview mirror as you charge ahead to bigger and better things. Perhaps that sounds cliché, but it is also true.

You are not alone!

Hi. I just wanted to weigh in on question 5. I don’t think masturbation is wrong in any way. If you do it then you are a normal 18 year old man like 99.99% of the worlds 18 year old males. I think the way the church treats the subject is immature and eventually (hopefully) it will change. In the meantime just know that many people are going through the same guilt cycle that you are going through. You do not need to feel guilty for it! Your body is wired to do this. I think you will be much happier if you can truly see that it is not a sin. If you still cannot see it then go to a non lds counsellor and they will be able to help.

Welcome, God bless and good luck on your journey.

Hello, I am an 18-year-old Mormon at BYU and I’ve been questioning my faith a lot over the past year or so. I’ve been doing a lot of research online and reading books from Christian and LDS authors like Terryl Givens, CS Lewis, John Lennox, and Alister McGrath. I think about gospel topics a lot, and I’ve made a bunch of Youtube videos under the username slippyslayer101 that outline some of my thoughts. My parents tell me to be patient and wait for the answers to come as I live my life, but I just can’t do that. I am emotionally dependent upon this church being true. If I stopped believing, I would probably commit suicide. I should say though that I feel a lot more confident now that the LDS Church is true than I used to feel, but I still have some nagging questions that I can’t really find satisfactory answers to. I know if there’s anyone who can help me, it’s the members of this site because you guys have probably asked yourselves these questions many times (except for maybe the last one, which I’m sure will sound like a childish question). I would love to hear people insights into any of these five questions. However, I would like to keep a view of this gospel that’s generally a more orthodox view. I mean, feel free to tell me what you think, but I’m not going to buy into anything that’s downright insane, like that masturbation isn’t truly a sin.

1. What exactly is the role of a prophet? I’ve lost a lot of faith in our prophets as I’ve learned about the things prophets have said in the past. I know the typical responses are that what they said was just their opinion, or that policy is different than doctrine. But what nobody seems able to answer then is how you’re supposed to determine what is revelation and what isn’t. If a prophet says something like that blacks will never hold the Priesthood, and this turns out to be false, it looks suspicious for us to just brush it off as a mere opinion when the people at the time took it to be revelation from a prophet of God. I’ve read the article on this site about what is official doctrine and what isn’t, and I thought it was a great article that laid things out neatly for me. But after reading it, I’m thinking “well, if there are only six times where we know for sure it was revelation, then what exactly was the purpose of the prophets that never received any official doctrine?” Some might say that their conference talks contain revelation hidden in them, but what would be the point of said revelation if it was so surrounded by personal opinions that I couldn’t help but brush it off? How can I take all the talk about preserving marriage between a man and woman seriously if I know that Joseph Fielding Smith said man would never set foot on the moon? JUST WHAT IS A PROPHET?!? Also, this isn’t really part of the question, but it bothers me when the General Authorities make extremely anti-intellectual arguments for the truthfulness of the LDS Church. I’m not trying to sound like a jerk, but I just can’t buy into claims like, “The Book of Mormon teaches good lessons so it must be true because a wicked man couldn’t make it up.”

2. Why does the LDS Church constanly get involved in political affairs, and is that really what Heavenly Father wants? Are we all supposed to be strong social conservatives? Of course we should be pretty “conservative” in our lifestyle, but I’m not comfortable being too controlling of what others do who are not from our faith. I think there are valid reasons why gambling, marijuana, prostitution, pornography, and gay marriage should be legal, and our church has advised its members to vote against all of these. And of course with Prop 8, we got so involved that we looked a little ridiculous to the rest of the world. Now I know that there are also valid reasons why some of these should not be legal that have nothing to do with religion, so I’m not necessarily saying I’m on the liberal side. I just would rather be able to think about these issues on my own without feeling like I’m bound to what my church says. I like thinking about politics because unlike religion, I don’t have to worry so much about being wrong. I can think however I want to. So I don’t like being told that while the church doesn’t endorse any candidate, we have a duty to protect morality in society. I think the argument could be made that since Satan was the one who wanted to take away our free agency, we should allow people to use that agency as much as we can allow them to. The issue that bothers me the most is gay marriage because that’s the one our church has been most vocal about. I had to vote on a marriage amendment because I live in Minnesota and I was so torn I think I was driving myself insane. I think the Equal Rights Amendment deal would have also driven me mad. I just want to know if God really wants the church to get involved in these issues. When the General Authorities try to argue against gay marriage, some of their arguments are really bad, and certainly General Conference does not seem like the right time to be addressing the issue. I know that in the past some rulers have claimed that God put them there so to question them was to question God. We see now just how terrible that was. I’m just worried about bowing down to an authoritarian figure on political issues when I don’t know for sure if it’s really God speaking through them. The church claims these aren’t really political issues because they’re moral issues, and I just don’t buy into that. All the issues are “moral issues.” It’s really sad to see so many young people here at BYU or back in my home ward who are really stressed about this, particularly with the issue of same-sex marriage. We’re all confused, and two guys I know essentially left the church over this issue. The General Authorities have really done nothing to help us except tell us we don’t have enough faith. I’m just tired of thinking about this. It makes our church look bad when we say we want to be tax exempt while still getting involved in these issues. I think you probably get my point now. Could somebody please just give me some things to think about with regards to our church’s political involvement?

3. “My guilt was swept away.” What does Enos mean? And it’s not just him, there are multiple times in the Book of Mormon where someone realized they were wicked, got racked with guilt, and then after feeling the pains of Hell they remembered God and the pain was gone. This just doesn’t make any sense. Most sins don’t make you feel guilty unless you believe in God. And if you believe in God, you know that He can forgive you. So what exactly is this period of time where you know there’s a God, but you’re evil and so you’re feeling the pains of Hell? It gets even worse when people say they’re thankful that God can take away their guilt, and that if you try to face your guilty feelings on your own you’ll fail. If you’ve forgotten about God, you won’t feel guilty about your sins. Atheists don’t feel guilty when they break the Sabbath, swear, masturbate, drink coffee, or do anything else they think is okay because of their unbelief. So…you really can face it on your own pretty easily because there won’t be any guilt there in the first place. It seems ridiculous to be thankful to God for taking away your guilt when He’s the reason you feel guilty in the first place. Another issue with this is that church leaders tell us that you feel guilty because you lost the Spirit. Well, here’s the problem with that. I read an embarassing article online where some Mormon was trying to convince everyone that masturbation was not a sin (he even calls it a “spiritual celebration,” yeah it’s that bad). And to prove that it didn’t take away the Spirit, he said he feels the Spirit more strongly during periods of his life where he masturbated then the times when he was abstinent. I think this just goes to show that if you’ve got yourself convinced that what you’re doing is okay, you won’t feel a bunch of guilt as the Spirit leaves you. You’ll still think you have the Spirit. So what the Spirit anyway? This really just makes it look like a placebo effect. I know so many people who do a pretty terrible job of following all the standards and yet they still get up on Fast Sunday and are bawling because thy feel the Spirit so strongly. I, on the other hand, have been more committed to following my religion than anyone I know, yet I don’t get all teary during testimony meetings. And the Spirit is supposed to be there more strongly in people who are doing what they should. So what do you guys think of “guilt” and “the Spirit?”

4. How am I supposed to view my Patriarchal blessing? When I first got it, despite the fact that my mom told me it was the most detailed blessing she’d ever heard, I was disappointed at how generic it seemed. Yeah, I get it, if I keep the commandments I’ll be blessed and have eternal life. After reading it over a few times though, I realized that there were some interesting things in it that I hadn’t noticed at first. Unfortunately, everything got screwed up when I got a letter from my bishop telling me that the Lord didn’t require me to serve a mission because of my Asperger’s and all the trouble it’s caused me. I got really upset about it at first, but after a while I realized I was relieved I didn’t have to serve one. But then I looked at my patriarchal blessing one day and saw that it says very clearly that I am supposed to serve a mission while on this earth. And it later mentions a mission with my wife, so it isn’t referring to that. The patriarch who gave me my blessing genuinely thought I’d be serving one at around this time in my life. So now what? Should I go destroy myself on a mission just because my blessing tells me to? Should I have children, which I truly don’t think I’ll ever be able to handle because I can barely care for myself, just because my blessing tells me to? How is this even a blessing? It’s much more of a curse than anything. And if everything it says is stuff that I’ll never do, it makes the blessing seem bogus. But if I force myself to do everything in it, I’m not exactly going to feel that impressed about it being fulfilled. While at first I wanted a detailed blessing, I now realize how badly I wanted one of those boring ones that literally tells you nothing. This patriarchal blessing my ruin me whether I follow it or not, particularly because of the mission and children. I just want to tear this thing up. Help?

5. This is a really immature question, but I need some clarity. For years I’ve been struggling to overcome masturbation/pornography. I can’t even begin to describe all the stress that this issue has caused me. So one night after doing it I told Heavenly Father that if I did it again, I wanted Him to send me to the Telestial Kingdom. In fact I prayed multiple times over the next couple weeks that that’s what He would do. I knew there was very little chance that Heavenly Father really made deals like that. I just thought that the very possibility of me getting sent there would scare me into not doing it anymore. Well wouldn’t you know it, it ended up happening again. I’m growing continuously more confident that I’ll overcome this issue once and for all soon. Over the years, I have gotten so much better at fighting off the urges, and I’ve now been following a strict plan of when I go to sleep and when I get up, because the only times now where there’s any temptation is when I’m laying in bed. So I’m not so concerned about the issue itself anymore. I just want to know for sure that Heavenly Father isn’t going to send me to the Telestial Kingdom, as long as I repent and overcome this.

Sorry this was kind of long. I realize now that I may have sounded a little negative. I do have many reasons for believing in this church. But these things are bothering me. So if you have any insights for me on any of these questions, I’d really appreciate some answers. Thanks in advance.

1.) How do you know – By the Holy Ghost. Go get the Holy Ghost. There is a difference between Prophet of the old testament in exactly how they function compared to Peter in the New Testament. Go read how peter refused the gentiles the gospel. Prophets in the NT/OT screwed up a lot as well. If they had the internet/media back then we would have more of their flaws and weaknesses recorded.

2.) Political Issues – They have a right to speak on them if they feel inspired to do so. Who knows what the long term reprocussions are if some of this platforms change and become the standard and acceptable. For instance perhaps there is nothing wrong with being gay, and yet the long term consequence is detrimental to families and a god fearing society. To decide the greater good is above my payscale. I acknowledge I have thought these through as well but always come back to our society being more god fearing and more faith reliant when it was more conservative 40’s 50’s and 60’s.

3.) They stopped seeing the gospel as a work righteousness as many LDS do, and started seeing the Grace based Salvation the LDS gospel actually teaches. Look at Nephi in chapter 4 of 2nd Nephi…. he tells you how he is an awful sinner and that sin so easily besets him and yet he announces all is well as it is Christ in whom he trusts. I suggest you listen to Robert millet and Brad Wilcox and some of their talks. Many, many members make this mistake, but the gospel is based on Christ’s Righteousness not mine or yours

4.) Celestial Kingdom is on this earth, millenium is on this earth. Is it possible you have work to do on this earth but not in this earthly lifetime?

5.) Again you need to understand Grace. You are missing half the gospel. Your only hearing “Keep the commandments” your missing the most awesome part. I am flawed too, I struggle, I have a good month then BLAM, I screw up and feel like trash and feel I messed it up. Nope. Come unto Christ and be perfected in him for his Grace is suffcient

watch this at least three times taking notes

http://byutv.org/watch/49475abb-10d4-4f45-a757-7000b9945468

or read this slowly a couple of times

http://speeches.byu.edu/?act=viewitem&id=1966

The problem with your 5 questions…. and I have been there and done that and lived in anguish working through it is that your paradigm of what the church means and is is different then what the church means or is in reality.

Take your time and test assumptions and good luck with all you do. email me anytime for more thorough answers if wanted

reelmormon@gmail.com

actually for strength of youth says “Do not do anything else that arouses sexual feelings. Do not arouse those emotions in your own body. ” and that iwas in the old edition as well as the new

Sorry, I hadn’t seen that.

Dear confused_mormon,

Your original post resonates with me so much. I will write more later, but a truth to consider:

There are two kinds of liars. The kind that says they’ve never masturbated and the kind that says they’ve quit.

I feel like I wasted my teenage years because I was obsessed with that sin and felt truckloads of guilt. Fasted, prayed, skipped youth temple trips, tied my shorts shut, slept out in the open, etc. It’s simply not worth feeling guilty about. I wish my dad and my bishop would have told me to not worry about it. That’s what I’m telling my sons.