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Hello All! I found this forum a few days ago and I don’t even have the decency to remember how, that I might give credit where credit is due. I can however say that I have been mightily impressed by the “spirit” I have found here. I’ve wanted to comment several times but felt I should at least introduce myself before I start chiming in on other threads. So here it goes!
I had my first crisis of the faith while on my mission. I was studying in the Book of Mormon when i came across something that caused me to doubt the veracity of it. I struggled much during the next week or so. I had always based my “testimony” on the BoM being true. I especially had a hard time testifying of the truth. Well, one night while praying and trying to decide what to do i came to the conclusion that regardless of whether the church was true or not, I had made covenants in the Temple with God, not the church, and that I would honor them regardless. From then on I felt peace. I’ve always attributed that peace to an answer from God that the church was indeed true and that I had passed some kind of test. In retrospect I think it had more to do with my beliefs and actions being brought into harmony and thus feeling peace, but that’s another thread.
Anyways maybe a year and a half ago (some 8 years after my mission) I suffered another major crisis of faith. It differed from many stories I’ve heard in that it wasn’t actually some doctrine or belief I had issue with. I’d heard all the anti-mormon doctrine I thought there was and was “okay” (read: dismissed antis as antagonists who wanted to destroy the true church of God) with it. However, one day while preparing a talk I came across a letter that was supposedly by some member who had risen high within the ranks of the church. I don’t remember the details well so if you’ve read it, forgive me any mistakes. In the letter he confessed he had a question which gnawed on him much of his life that he also dismissed until he became mission president. At that point he felt he needed to have the question answered. My memory is a little fuzzy but it seems that for whatever reason he decided the answer wasn’t good enough and thus the church wasn’t true. Well, to worsen matters this man had already received his 2nd endowment which made it all the more worse that he fell away (at least in my mind).
This story spurred many thoughts which summed up is “If so many people that have great faith and hold high callings can fall away because of some unanswered question, then why not me? Do i want to wait until I’m almost done with life before finding out the truth?” The answer I came to was no. I feared that if I didn’t confront many of the things I had heard and shelved now, that someday when I did, I would find myself apostatizing as others have done. I reasoned that it would be better to do early on rather than later. Thus begun my journey of trying to find answers to the hard questions. Since then I’ve researched on and off many of the questions that I’ve had, both on apologetic sites and other “non-biased” sites. I’ve been able to dismiss some stuff as out right lies and other stuff as simply not having enough proof either way. But somethings the proof seemed to be on the side contrary to what the Mormon church teaches. I had no choice but to accept them.
This has made for a emotional roller coaster I know many of you can relate to. Somehow I even talked to my wife about it. Needless to say that didn’t go over well and for a day or two I even feared she would divorce me over this lack of faith. I hadn’t even decided to leave the church yet, though admittedly I was leaning that way. It all got to be too much and so I put my whole search for truth on the back burner for a while. Meanwhile I still contemplated much of the significance of what I had learned. I’ve tried to make sense of everything and unknowingly find a middle ground where I could still be active, even if I didn’t believe.
Eventually I came upon the NOM website and was amazed to find others like me. I never posted there, only lurked. [Edited (line removed) – after thinking about it and going and visiting again, I realize it’s not much different there than here. I was just a bit more bitter at the time as this was all too new]I eventually stopped lurking and just kept trying to figure things out on my own.
I’ve felt mostly despair over not having the blind faith I used to have. It was a comfortable lie I lived. Now I’ve felt mostly uncertain about everything. I carried around a lot of fear and worry about what the future held. Then I found stayLds. I know many of you participate on NOM as well but for some reason it just seems the spirit here is different. Maybe it’s because I’ve spent most of my time in the Introductions and Support forums but regardless I’ve felt a change in myself. Where as before I felt despair I now feel hope. I feel like many of you are like me: you feel the church isn’t wholly true but neither is it bad. And it can help us grow closer to God (whatever that even means). I feel hope for the future. No longer do I worry about falling away from the church. I’ve chosen to find a middle way and that’s what I will do.
I know I have a long journey ahead. I don’t even know what I believe at the moment, or rather, what I know. I guess right now I believe whatever I’ve always believed unless I know it not to be true. But I no longer am willing to believe these things blindly. For the rest of my journey, I wll put these beliefs to the test and create a new belief system. As Wayfarer is so fond of saying, I will find the Way (I went to your blog and read many entries by the way and think you have a wonderful belief system. I may borrow some of them).
I could keep writing but I believe it would just turn into venting. I thank you all for sharing your stories and providing a place of mutual understanding and support. I too would walk the way alone if not for you, as my wife is not yet ready to start the journey. I look forward to participating more here in the future.
So glad you found the site. It’s been a lifesaver. I appreciate that it’s heavy on searching, learning and sharing. Pretty light on venting, but we can do that, too. Everyone is patient. Best wishes. Welcome Eman. I can completely concur with the feeling of relief and sense of being ‘home’ here. I’ve tried a few other forums but they’re either too negative or overly militant in defending the church. I loved reading your post and look forward to future contributions. It has set me up just right for Sunday morning and reminds me of the positives before heading to church.
Welcome. You are definitely in the right place. We are all on a very similar journey, and as we work through this, we can find our Way amidst the challenges of a faith crisis.
This site is about staying LDS amidst that challenge, and there are many ways to do that. I’m sure you’ve read the resources on StayLDS.com, which Brian Johnston and others have put a lot of work into to make it easy for you to find your path. I highly recommend them.
If you’ve lurked long enough, you may know that I do not believe in any supernatural claims, yet I have found what I believe is a way to remain fully active and participating. I have been on this journey for coming up to 25 years on November 30th of this year. I have gone through pretty much all the stages, and wayfared through many faith traditions. I have come back to the LDS ‘faith’, because I find in it things on which I can anchor, and it is my tribe and culture. I enjoy the church, its peculiarities, and its people.
I believe there is a viable Middle Way, which as capitalized, means to find your own personal way of authenticity between the extremes of emotion, dogma, belief, and time. You will see many resources on my bloglink below, at least, in the Way I find peace and happiness. I don’t know of others who look at things exactly the way I do, but here there are many who have forged their own authentic path, usually within the confines of being within the church — hence the name of the site. I frequent and post on NOM as well, which is more attuned to finding peace but not necessarily within the church. I find a balance of both to be useful for me.
As for the former stake president who left the church after his second anointing, I’m not sure what to say — i have a lot of mixed feelings. I personally would not share sacred things, even if I didn’t believe they were ‘true’, because there is no point to it. For example, I have taken hinduism to the limit, and have participated in some very sacred rites. I could ‘reveal’ them, but I choose not to, even if I think they are quite strange and based in some very earthy sexual connotations. But I would be violating the trust given me by my friends in India who brought me through those events. As well, that individual has gone completely out of the church — he could not find middle ground, and as a result, left and now advocates. I don’t think that is the way.
I think it very critical to stop the binary thinking, the ‘splitting’/false dualism that says its either all true or all false. It’s in the Middle. The book of mormon, to me is an inspired work, whether fiction or not, which contains inspired thoughts and teachings, along with some very 19th century biases and bigotry. Is it the ‘most correct book’ and ‘translated by the gift and power of god’? to me, no. not at all. But it’s certainly a very good book and I would say written by the gift and power of the spirit in so many ways. As well, he that speaketh as well as he that receiveth must receive things like this in the spirit of truth (section 50) — thus if I find the spirit in the book of mormon, which I certainly have, then it is a ‘true’ book to me, in those areas of content which contain that spirit.
When I set aside the idea that there is a single, all powerful, all knowing, all benevolent god out there that directs everything and has had his hand in the church from the beginning, then I find that all scripture, all revelation, is simply ‘inspiration’ given to the mind and heart of anyone who will listen to inspiration. It is necessarily a product both of the divine, should that exist, as well as the human. Joseph proclaimed in his King Follett discourse, ‘God is a man, that is the great secret’. Of course, he was referring to an exalted man, which brings all sorts of strange connotation. But when we start looking at Joseph’s trajectory, he was headed toward a very humanist view of divinity. When we read scriptural history, including the LDS version of it, we find opinion taught as truth, pious fraud, and all sorts of made up stuff. Does it make it all ‘false’? No. It just makes it inspired works, and we must use our own discretion and inspiration to sort out what we need and leave the rest behind.
This is the skill necessary to surviving as a NOM or as a Middle Way Mormon: to seek for truth wherever we can find it, and as we grow, allow ourselves to seek truth personally, while sharing only those aspects with others as they are capable of handling them. Joseph said that the Latter day Saints would have no creeds, but that they/we are prepared to accept all truth existing, as it is made manifest from time to time. This, to me, is the anchor of being Middle Way in the Church — to find the truth, to reject the false, and to embrace the community of saints in love and service.
It has worked so far for me and for many others here. It isn’t easy. It’s got its ups and downs, day by day. But we get through, because we care for each other and we find peace in our path, whatever that may be.
The one most critical piece of advice is ‘GO SLOW’… seriously..
May you find your own path and enjoy this wonderful journey.
Welcome. I don’t have much time right now, but I want to echo two things: 1) Find your own beliefs;
2) Go slowly.
I’m glad you are here.
I would completely support the advice to ‘go slow.’ The stake president you mentioned I think is the one who’s publishing his correspondence with Elder Holland on RfM. I don’t particularly like his approach or patronising tone.
Some people throw away years of church service when finding out a series of uncomfortable ‘facts’ (or claims) based on their 21st C interpretation of them. I can empathise with that. I nearly resigned my membership after 3-4 weeks of studying church history. I felt sick, shocked, deceived.
I’m very glad I haven’t thrown it away in a rush. I’m still not sure where my journey will take me, but I don’t want to look back in 30 years and question whether I rushed a decision.
Welcome to the site! Life is a journey, as you are discovering, and lifelong blind obedience is not a virtue, IMO. It’s just an excuse to avoid the risk that we might be wrong and to avoid the discomfort of questioned assumptions. Questioning our assumptions is a part of growing up. Throwing them away in an emotional fit is another way to avoid growing up. Ultimately, each of us is responsible to figure out our own beliefs and own our own choices. Too bad that is such a terrifying prospect to most people! Welcome, eman. Sorry to hear about some of the things that have shaken your faith. I’ve had some things in life shake my faith in the church too. I still have a testimony of it. I just have a testimony that things were not as perfect as I once within it. Feel comfortable to share your experiences with us. That’s what we’re here for. Welcome I liked your NOM and staylds comment. I visit them both but I feel that it is more positive here. I visit NOM on days when I’m more angry at the whole situation.
I am in a similar place where I don’t really know what I believe. I found that I could not believe anything blindly and I’m starting all over and trying to understand what I want to believe.
I had similar experiences with my wife when I first came out to her. Things have gotten better with time but thinking we might get divorced was painful. You have my sympathies.
wayfarer wrote:
I personally would not share sacred things, even if I didn’t believe they were ‘true’, because there is no point to it.…
I think it very critical to stop the binary thinking, the ‘splitting’/false dualism that says its either all true or all false.
…
This is the skill necessary to surviving as a NOM or as a Middle Way Mormon: to seek for truth wherever we can find it, and as we grow, allow ourselves to seek truth personally, while sharing only those aspects with others as they are capable of handling them. Joseph said that the Latter day Saints would have no creeds, but that they/we are prepared to accept all truth existing, as it is made manifest from time to time. This, to me, is the anchor of being Middle Way in the Church — to find the truth, to reject the false, and to embrace the community of saints in love and service.
…
The one most critical piece of advice is ‘GO SLOW’… seriously..
Thanks, Wayfarer. I agree. It was stupid to share personal things and definitely a sign of immaturity.
Binary thinking is a very damaging thing. I truly believe that it is what made things so hard at the beginning. How many times have I heard lessons on how the BoM is the cornerstone of our religion and how we can have a domino testimony of other things because of it? Thus my first inclination was that everything must be false if the BoM isn’t really the “most correct of any book.” It’s funny how we are taught to do one thing but collectively do another. They teach that we should seek for confirmation of what the prophets teach and yet we accept what the teach blindly. They declare that leaders make mistakes yet if anyone questions it, they’re walking the road of apostasy. This say one thing do another makes it so very hard to walk the middle way. Even talking with my wife is hard as she might be willing to intellectually agree with some practice/teaching being wrong, but emotionally shrug it off. In other words while I’ve phrased my current faith crisis as really just trying to understand for my self what is true
as the brethren have taught, she can’t get passed the part that I don’t believe everything anymore. It’s so hard to talk to her about this since I”m still working it out for my self. All I really want is to know God’s will and not rely on fallible though well meaning people to define for me what my path to Him should be. Ilovechrist77 wrote:
…Sorry to hear about some of the things that have shaken your faith. I’ve had some things in life shake my faith in the church too. I still have a testimony of it. I just have a testimony that things were not as perfect as I once within it…
At first I felt that way, that my faith was shaken. But as time has passed I’ve come to look at it more as my beliefs that have been shaken. I know that’s a play on words but I still have faith…or a hope that all I’ve believed all my life is true, at least as far as the Gospel goes. But I can no longer trust in the arms of flesh to interpret the Gospel. I know that my beliefs will change over time, but It will because of personal study and meditation as opposed to an authoritarian interpretation. I have many specific views about different principles of the gospel (such as prayer, the priesthood, purpose/nature of God) that don’t really fit with what I’ve been taught. I’ll share them in the following weeks as time allows. I do have 4 young living children (oldest is 5 and one passed away after birth) so much of my time is “claimed” This fortunatly forces me to take it slow as other have suggested since I don’t have time to take it fast.Brian wrote:
I liked your NOM and staylds comment. I visit them both but I feel that it is more positive here. I visit NOM on days when I’m more angry at the whole situation.
Thanks Brian. It is tough with the wife. She isn’t very understanding and tends to make comments such as “I wish you could be like so and so’s husband. He doesn’t have doubts” or “Why can’t you just forget about this stuff and believe. It’s just stumbling blocks put in place by Satan.” I feel her pain as sometimes I wish I could. But as I’ve said, you can’t really just put it back on the shelf once the shelf is broken. It just falls right back down on you. Moreover, I feel kind of like my eyes have been opened and I’m not entirely sure I’d want to go back to being a sheep. I have faith that once I get through this I will be stronger, more sure of of my beliefs, unshakable. I don’t worry about one day falling away with bitterness of having wasted my life in a lie. Rather I march forward as a member of the church in spite of any imperfections or philosophies of man that have crept in to the church, knowing that there is still much more good than bad and I can still be edified by the community as well as the sincere desires of others to be good.Oh and I edited that part about the NOM because I thought it sounded kind of blunt/rude. Sorry to confuse any readers that came on after I did so. I basically said I like it here better as it seems more like people who sincerely want to be LDS rather than are only doing it for social/other reasons.
Anyways, I’m glad to be part of stayLds. Thanks for all your support.
Ok…not trying to tread on sacred ground but “2nd endowment”…thats a myth right? 
I first heard about the 2nd endowment on my mission. They called it “calling and election made sure”. There’s some scriptures in the d&c that mention this I think. It always seemed like someone trying to justify their current sins because they did some good things before. I don’t like it at all – what’s wrong with relying on grace? Why does the church need to give salvation. let god do that. Welcome. I have very little hope or faith in the Mormon church…but I respect those who honestly search for a middle way…
Good Luck. Listen to wayfarer…I post less because he post more…and is better at it.
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cwald wrote:Welcome.
I have very little hope or faith in the Mormon church…but I respect those who honestly search for a middle way…
Good Luck. Listen to wayfarer…I post less because he post more…and is better at it.
ack. I rely on you keeping me straight… lao tzu said, “who who knows doesn’t speak. He who speaks doesn’t know”.
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