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So it’s been about 8 months since my disaffection reached it’s peak and I stopped attending meetings other than Sacrament, met with my Bishop to inform him of my difficulties in dealing with the members of our ward, and set forth in a quest to find out where I fit in the church. This site has helped me tremendously and has allowed me to see where many others are in their currently faith journey. Over the last 2 weekends I have finally started to put together a clear mental image of who I am and where my issues lay. Through reading this site (as well as NOM) I have found that a great many individuals who experience a faith crisis (some actually leaving the church) are drawn to, or remain because of, a strong sense of tribal, or cultural, allegiance to the church. That is to say, even if their faith is absent they feel that they are part of something bigger and that something provides an environment that brings them comfort (most of the time). Regardless of their beliefs they identify as part of the group. I have also heard of this with other religious traditions such as individuals who identify as culturally Jewish but agnostic or atheist. This however, is not me. I am LDS but I am not culturally Mormon.
Things may be different in other areas of the world, but here in Alberta we are just the northern section of the inter-mountain west culture that is found in Utah, Idaho, etc. It is within this culture that I was raised as a non-mormon. As such I was always left on the outside of the social climate of my community and classmates. As I grew up it was made clear to me that I was part of the ‘other’ and not part of the culture. As a result I grew-up disliking many, if not all, aspects of Mormon culture. When I joined the church as a young adult I felt that I was now part of the group. The thing is I never reached that point. So here I am 19+ years after baptism and I am still on the outside socially and culturally in the church. And you know what … I’m okay with that now (I hope).
This all became so clear to me when I compared my experiences over the last couple of weeks. I attended 3 social events over the last 2 weekends. One was the ward Christmas party. One was my wife’s company Christmas party and the other was a friend’s birthday bash (name that tune night at local pub). At the 2 non-Mormon functions I felt comfortable. People were friendly. No one cared that DW and I weren’t drinking. People were interested in what my wife and I were up to in our lives. Generally people treated us a equals and as valued members of the group (even though there were people at both functions that I had never met before). At the Ward Christmas party only 3 people spoke to me with out me addressing them first and it was only to say “hi” from at least 30 feet away. At our table there was room for an additional 8 people but no one joined our family, even those who I invited to join our table. In a room with 400 plus people ours was one of a very few tables with space available. As a result I didn’t feel comfortable or welcome. The difference between how I felt and how I was treated at the events was incredible.
So this what I’ve come to believe. I am LDS, not Mormon. I believe in (or at least I am actively working on believing) the Bible, BoM, JS, and all other doctrinal things. If in doubt, I’ll turn to my Heavenly Father and sincerely seek out personal revelation concerning whatever issue I am having. I pay a full tithe and obey the WoW. I struggle with Church policy and programs and will prayerfully choose what I want to participate in or not. I will fully support my DW and my sons in whatever degree of participation they wish to have. I do not care about cultural church items, such as who has been called to what (either in my ward or in my large extended in-law family). I don’t read the church news. I don’t care if some one famous (or semi-famous) is LDS. I don’t care what famous (or semi-famous) person used to be LDS. I don’t follow BYU sports (or sports in general). I will not send my kids to Church schools. I am pro- gay marriage, anti-gun, left leaning (at least in the church sense) politically. My wife has a professional job and earns significantly more than I do and I am okay with that. I cook, clean and act as the primary care giver and I’m good at it. No my family does not suffer as a result of this. I do not nor will I ever read LDS fiction, non-fiction or watch LDS movies.
Perhaps this is somewhat pessimistic but I think it reflects who I am. If given the option of being involved with good people who are not LDS and being involved with people just because they are LDS, I will choose the non-LDS people every time. Perhaps out there somewhere are other LDS folks who I would feel comfortable around and who would feel comfortable around me but here in Calgary (and especially in my ward) I cannot find any. I am choosing to stayLDS but not stayMormon.
Again, you guys on this site are great and I will continue to read and occasionally post when I feel I can add to the discussion.
Thanks for the update Canucknuckle, I can sympathize. We participate in a range of programs offered by both Park & Rec., community, and other churches. I’m tempted to say that the more we branch out to other groups, the more we are regarded with suspicion by some members of our ward. But in planning my daughter’s 7 year birthday party and making a list of the invitees – we were struck at how many people DD wanted to invite from these different groups. For her, she has a wealth of quality friendships and is able to “diversify.” I am hoping that as my kids grow up, they will be comfortable with a range of people and not default to just LDS.
Life is OK and the kids will be just fine.
I admire your courage at seeking “individual adaptation” that works best for you and your family.
I love this post! Thanks, mate, for posting this. I do feel a tribal affinity to LDS culture; as you said, very similar to a number of Catholics and Jews. However, that doesn’t mean I enjoy Gerald Lund novels, MoTab or Sherri Dew biographies. Just as your “cultural Jew” who happens to be agnostic doesn’t share much belief-wise with the Hasidim, I don’t have much in common with TBM Mormons who don’t watch footy on Sundays, don’t drink Coke and don’t waterski because they think Satan “rides on the waters.” I do, however, feel a connection with them somehow. They’re a part of my big Mormon family, and I’ll metaphorically punch someone in the nose who messes with my TBM little brother. Perhaps this “us vs. them” mentality isn’t healthy; I don’t know. I’m fine with all of us here criticising the Church and TBM orthodoxy – we’re criticising from within. I get fired up, though, when outsiders criticise us. I would (again, metaphorically) go to battle for the Church and other Mormons, even though many aspects of both the Church and Mormon culture drive me nuts. Having said all that, I choose to live far, far away from SLC. I grew up in N. Utah; educated in SLC; can’t stand living there. I still enjoy the odd visit every few years, but could never live there again. Not just Utah: couldn’t live in the mountain west. Happy as a clam out in the “mission field.” Most of my friends aren’t Mormons, none of my kid’s friends are Mormons, and I love it.
So, my Northern Friend, carry on! If you’ve found a good place for yourself spiritually, socially, and with the family, then stay in that groove.
Canucknuckle, thank you for the post. My social involvement are similar to the conditions you describe. I have been doing it longer & don’t miss the Mormon contacts that I had before.
I have close relationships within the Church with only a hand full of close friends.
I refuse to participate in the rumor mills & gossip.
I’m not good at
Quote:schmuzzing
.
I do like meeting new members & old members that appear to exist on the fringe.
If I’m uncomfortable, I’m gone.
Our Christmas party is coming this weekend.
I wonder what Orin Porter Rockwell would do?
Quote:I wonder what Orin Porter Rockwell would do?
Probably things that you shouldn’t do if you want to remain a free man.
:shh: I think there’s an important key question here. Do we fit better with the doctrines or the culture? I have gone back and forth on this one. With the culture I fit in very well in some places and absolutely hate it in others. It probably has to do with phases in life also. I hated the culture at BYU, but fit in well within my own major. I really had nothing in common with many of my ward friends in PA, but I felt totally accepted and free to be myself. I couldn’t relate to the women in another ward in Utah, and yet we made friends. I was friendly but mostly lonely and bored to tears at church. I always thought I fit better with the doctrines than the culture, but looking back I see how the culture has also seeped in: being friendly, looking people in the eye, saying yes, helping people out, enjoying teaching their kids, and supporting people in the background even when we really weren’t friends. It’s like an extended family. Frustrating and full of oddballs, thy don’t really get you, but they are there to support and be supported.
hawkgrrrl wrote:looking back I see how the culture has also seeped in: being friendly, looking people in the eye, saying yes, helping people out, enjoying teaching their kids, and supporting people in the background even when we really weren’t friends. It’s like an extended family. Frustrating and full of oddballs, thy don’t really get you, but they are there to support and be supported.
You make an interesting point here that runs contrary to my experiences but yet it is something that I have witnessed. Let me elaborate. Yes, members tend to be friendly to one another but (and this is only my opinion) it only runs to a very superficial level. As far as supporting each other goes I have never experienced this (nor has my immediate family) in 19 years of membership, not even when we desperately needed support. Now I have seen support given to others but for whatever reason it has never been directed towards me or my family. I don’t wish to go into details but there have been some very major events, and plenty of little ones as well, where we needed support and none came. Over the years it has been my non-LDS friends and family who have come to my side.
I can honestly say with no hyperbole that I have never felt supported by the members in every ward I have ever lived in. In fact I would say that, at least here in Alberta, the non-LDS people are far more friendly, helpful, and generally more generous with their time, efforts, and friendships than the members. It is almost like Mormons here have become their own reclusive group. Outside of work and perhaps youth sports, members are only involved in doing things with other members. And these relationships are contingent on everyone being the same TBM type.
So in my case I clearly fit better with the doctrine and not the culture.
This conversation reminded me of something I noticed a while ago. In Oregon the “helping hand” comes in assignments “who will be there at the move saturday”, etc.
I was talking along these lines with another questioner and I mentioned how we create charty rules that allows us to walk away from continually looking at ways to serve. Pay a full tithe? Give a generous Fast Offering? Here is your reccomend as you are clearly a good person! Hungry guy on the street? He is probably a drunk anyways….I paid fast offerings so I am good.
My friend said…”yeah…but growing up in farming community Idaho lots of folks were out there stepping up to help!”
I had to admit…this was true…then it occurred to me…many of these helpful people (all of my relatives are from Pocatello/Inkom area) would be considered Jack-Mormons here….I wonder…was it the church that made them that way or something else? Because the church is not cranking out many folks like that in my neighborhood…
Just something to consider: Isolation breeds clannishness – and there are things both wonderful and terrible about clans.
Most of the people we hang out with are from church because that is where we do most of our socializing and I think my wife is more comfortable in those situations. When I was still in the Reserves I would hang out with the guys some on drill weekends and some during my yearly training but I noticed I hung out with the people that were more like me. I went to the bars a few times and did all the driving because I didn’t drink but in truth, I didn’t find it all that fun and at times it really was uncomfortable for me. I grew up in a non LDS home and community in Virginia and seeing some of those life styles is what made the church more appealing to me. I have to admit that when I do hang out with LDS friends I do get sick and tired that almost all conversations eventually lead to some type of church discussion. We I visit Utah and talk to active friends and family the discussions usually involve the church and money. It seems like people in Utah are obsessed with talking about money. I hate it. I have lived in the mission field most of my life and the feel is so different than Utah, even among church members. There is not a lot of the keeping up with the Jones mentality. Maybe because the Wards are so spread out and that there is so much diversity money wise within each Ward. Since I am ranting, let me get this off my chest also. The home decor in Utah looks like it come straight from Deseret Book store only. It drives me crazy. I like art deco and things like that and most Mormons consider that stuff pornographic. Well I grew up in PA, so results may vary. We were like a big, weird, eclectic family. I admit I really don’t see the benefit of tribes, clans etc. it promotes so much “us versus them” thinking. Seeing people in your family or clan as “safe” or “friendly” and seeing others as “outsiders” or people that need to be taught, groomed and act and think as you. It’s disturbing to me to watch from any walk of life or tribe. I tend to see everything as a cohesive whole, all intertwined. Even the earth and animals itself as part of all one big family. Likewise I do not like what i see with “allegiance”. It’s a outdated old concept to me made to promote ones own family, tribe, culture etc. instead of working together in mutual love and acceptance. Before humans evolved we didn’t have the information and rational minds we can and sometimes do obtain now. We needed to protect “our flock” from those that would do harm. We made a simple but bad choice to see others as outsiders unless they join our “tribe” and “probe themselves”. Sounds pretty condescending, and to watch it is even more so. It’s like ” selective unity”. This applies to all “tribes” and “allegiances” of any culture, religion , political system, college “fraternity”. Actually if we want to be deserving of the term civilization then we must act like it. Being civil does not promote one specific group, tribe, people or company etc. that is not love or compassion nor is it “just”. We should all strive to help one another and be united regardless of what “tribe” we belong to or identify with. Allegiance suggest also that you would be loyal to a particular ” tribe” ” no matter what”. Also a harmful concept. I choose o be loyal to all who have treated me well. I choose to see the entire earth and universe including the creatures their in as my “family” and tribe. But anyway that’s how I see it. I look forward to the day when strip ourselves of our “ancestral roots” and go beyond their knowledge and thinking into a cohesive 1 eternal tribal family. Love without restraints, no tiers of human or creatures. Where the idea of loyalty to promote one particular tribe over another is concept long forgotten. Country, religion, family or other group.
Find peace and love with whom ever and where ever you are. Love one another with no “buts”.
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