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  • #207227
    Anonymous
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    So I’m just curious if this would be a good idea… I’d be particularly interested to hear from those of you like Mackay11 that were the TBM spouse for a while. I found this article over at puremormonism: who-you-callin-apostate. I’m thinking of sharing it with my wife as I think it does a fairly good job explaining my beliefs as far as mormon doctrine is concerned…I.E. that the “Bretheren” are just men and fallible and I try to follow “The Gospel” first and “The Church” second. What do you think? It’s sometimes hard to know if it would be a put off or offensive for a TBM such as my wife…

    #262186
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I don’t regret telling my wife about my lack of belief in the Church even though it was painful at first. However, I would defintely be careful about it because this is hard for many TBMs to deal with very well. At this point I don’t really expect TBMs to understand or even want to know why I don’t believe in the Church so I try to keep it to myself as much as possible and will only say I don’t want to pay tithing or accept any callings right now in the worst cases without going into too many details about why.

    #262187
    Anonymous
    Guest

    It has always been cautioned to go slow. I was the spouse who received the news. I was atypical, I took his points on as a challenge. The two of us spent months trying to prove our points and change the other persons mind. Eventually we realized the only person who changes their mind is the person themselves.

    I have seen more than once that a devout spouse can really stonewall their spouse on these issues but when someone else they trust goes through it, the door opens. I suggest patience as well as deciding why it is important to you to tell her. For some relationships it makes things worse. You might want to decide what is most important to you then proceed with wisdom.

    Good Luck.

    #262188
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Thanks for your replies. I just want to clarify that my wife knows about my “struggles.” I let that cat out of the bag during my actual crisis. The topic comes up occasionally as I share thoughts or something I’ve read (always something I consider “safe” or not anti but rather true doctrine as taught by JS). It’s just she get’s pretty upset fast and stonewalls so it’s hard to know if something is appropriate or too much for a TBM.

    #262189
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I think this is a really tough question. My wife went through two ‘struggles’ a couple of years apart, both while I was TBM.

    The first one I reacted badly, got very defensive and questioned the foundation of our relationship. Our reactions to each other nearly ended the marriage.

    The second time round she simply stopped going. Luckily, at the time, we were in a good ‘space’ emotionally. We were able to be considerate and compassionate to each other. It was still tough and I still asked a lot of questions about the implications of our (eternal) relationship. We had some sharp words and it could have culminated in a relationship breakdown. The fact we came through it, realising our relationship was based on our love and commitments ‘now’ was a great thing.

    But… unless I asked, she never imposed her study on me. I rarely did. Occasionally I’d try to answer her issues (I spent time on FAIR to get the answers but always ran quickly from sites that were more negative). In the end we both decided to respect the reality that the other person was genuinely happy in their current situation.

    It was still a painful and turbulent experience. Tread with caution. Not all couples or individuals will react like we did. Some spouses will make an ultimatum. I pretty much did the first time round. But equally, you need to be honest with yourself.

    As far as sharing, my advice would be to not share the writings of others, especially on ‘unorthodox’ websites. I used to get frustrated that she was reading uncorrelated sources and felt she was being misled. Instead, if you want to share, I’d suggest writing/saying it in your own words. Focus more on feelings than problems.

    When I eventually went through my study and struggle it was entirely of my own desires. There was no push at all from her. Studying church from a critical perspective was one of the most gut-wrenchingly painful experiences of my life. I often regret it. I’m so, so glad my wife was smart enough and kind enough to not be the cause of that pain. I suggest you don’t want to be for your spouse either.

    Hope that helps

    #262190
    Anonymous
    Guest

    eman wrote:

    Thanks for your replies. I just want to clarify that my wife knows about my “struggles.” I let that cat out of the bag during my actual crisis. The topic comes up occasionally as I share thoughts or something I’ve read (always something I consider “safe” or not anti but rather true doctrine as taught by JS). It’s just she get’s pretty upset fast and stonewalls so it’s hard to know if something is appropriate or too much for a TBM.

    I have found that it is helpful to share what is considered positive from their point of view. If you are striving to follow the “Gospel”, share that. Maybe as an insignificant aside something like “we know leaders are human and not infallible” at a time when you are not trying to make a point of it. The problem is when in the others mind you are on an opposing “side” — if you are viewed as trying to “score points” for your “side” you are losing.

    #262191
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Orson wrote:

    eman wrote:

    Thanks for your replies. I just want to clarify that my wife knows about my “struggles.” I let that cat out of the bag during my actual crisis. The topic comes up occasionally as I share thoughts or something I’ve read (always something I consider “safe” or not anti but rather true doctrine as taught by JS). It’s just she get’s pretty upset fast and stonewalls so it’s hard to know if something is appropriate or too much for a TBM.

    I have found that it is helpful to share what is considered positive from their point of view. If you are striving to follow the “Gospel”, share that. Maybe as an insignificant aside something like “we know leaders are human and not infallible” at a time when you are not trying to make a point of it. The problem is when in the others mind you are on an opposing “side” — if you are viewed as trying to “score points” for your “side” you are losing.

    I agree with Orson. There was a time when I was bringing a lot of stuff up to my wife about the church. They was issues about the shopping mall or “skinny jeans” or white shirts etc. Because these things were peripheral and not central to the church I felt that they were safe targets of criticism. Perhaps any one of them might have been but in aggregate it was too much and my wife felt that I was looking for back doors to sneak in attacks against the church. Perhaps I was.

    More important than sharing doubts with your wife at this point I think would be steady reassurance that you are still the same man, that you aren’t about to burn your garments, or abandon your family, or become an alcoholic. If she already knows the general idea about your doubts then I would focus on being there for her. One great thing about a marriage is the knowledge that someone will stick by you no matter what, help her to know that your marriage will survive even this.

    #262192
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hi eman, as I’ve shared my struggles with my TBM wife I’ve never tried to convince her of anything except that I still love her and my children and intend to be a faithful husband and father. I’m still very active in the church (not sure if that applies or not) but the way I express myself to everyone is much more careful so that I feel I’m being honest with myself and others. She knows I participate on this board and we discuss questions often but I’d fear that sharing articles comes across as either being defensive or trying to convince her. I share my verbal summaries of online conversations or articles often.

    One thing that I’ve come to appreciate is that by discussing openly – rather than me trying to convince her – is that I’m able to more objectively figure out what I believe. She’s pointed out a few inaccurate beliefs in my budding “middle way” approach. I’ve come to realize that some of my “issues” with the church are actually more “issues” of the way I was raised and with my ultra stalwart father. In that sense I feel that I’m more fair with church policies because of open conversations with my TBM wife.

    #262193
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Should you? I have no clue, when it comes right down to it, since I don’t know you or your wife well enough to hazard a guess – and it would be a hazard and a guess.

    My only input:

    If you are going to make a mistake, and you surely will to some degree, err on the side of love, compassion and charity. “Above all else, do no (un-necessary) harm.”

    #262194
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I read the article and I actually loved it. I would be hesitant to share this with any TBM however because it rocks the very core of their belief. My mom for example, would definitely shut down if I gave this to her to read. I don’t know your wife, but I think maybe starting smaller scale and easing into it might be better…sort of the way we do when we convert people ;)

    #262195
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Again, thanks for the replies. A need you guys to talk me out of my impulsiveness. It’s tough. Yes the faith transition was hard on me at first. But now I feel happier than before, even though I’m still working out my belief system. It’s an exciting journey. An I want so much to share it with my wife. But slow I must go. I didn’t share it with her. However, the newest post at puremormonism just happened to be about tithing. I DID share that with her as we already had an in depth discussion about tithing (just about what 10% really means, nothing about current lds corporate mentality). It actually went over pretty well. In commenting she even felt a bit of irritation over the following ensign quote:

    Quote:

    “If paying tithing means that you can’t pay for water or electricity, pay tithing. If paying tithing means that you can’t pay your rent, pay tithing. Even if paying tithing means that you don’t have enough money to feed your family, pay tithing.”


    Not at the author, but at that extreme stance on paying tithing. That’s progress. She’s not one to EVER criticize what The Church does…

    Anyways, I will follow the advice here to take it slow, paraphrase what I read rather than having her read stuff, and only to the degree it’s not negative.

    Thanks! :thumbup:

    #262196
    Anonymous
    Guest

    eman wrote:

    Again, thanks for the replies. A need you guys to talk me out of my impulsiveness. It’s tough. Yes the faith transition was hard on me at first. But now I feel happier than before, even though I’m still working out my belief system. It’s an exciting journey. An I want so much to share it with my wife. But slow I must go. I didn’t share it with her. However, the newest post at puremormonism just happened to be about tithing. I DID share that with her as we already had an in depth discussion about tithing (just about what 10% really means, nothing about current lds corporate mentality). It actually went over pretty well. In commenting she even felt a bit of irritation over the following ensign quote:

    Quote:

    “If paying tithing means that you can’t pay for water or electricity, pay tithing. If paying tithing means that you can’t pay your rent, pay tithing. Even if paying tithing means that you don’t have enough money to feed your family, pay tithing.”


    Not at the author, but at that extreme stance on paying tithing. That’s progress. She’s not one to EVER criticize what The Church does…

    Anyways, I will follow the advice here to take it slow, paraphrase what I read rather than having her read stuff, and only to the degree it’s not negative.

    Thanks! :thumbup:

    Good on you.

    I believe that to develop a positive relationship in a mixed-faith (or mixed-testimony) situation, both parties should fully respect and accept each others faith position.

    As I’ve mentioned in other places, I made/make no attempt to change her perspective. She shows me the same respect.

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