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Roadrunner wrote:
For a separate thread, if it were up to me I’d make church two hours and skip Sunday School. I get what I need in Priesthood and Sacrament and my kids get enough in YM/YW and primary and 5 hours of seminary per week plus 1.5 hours every Wed night.
I’m taking the initiative here, and jumping Roadrunner’s thoughts from a separate thread into a new one.
Two Hour Church – how awesome is it / would it be?Luckily, I have a bit of experience in this. I attended a rather large branch on a military base where, because of limited access to facilities, we could “only” use the chapel for 2 hours of Church on Sunday. I’ll jump right to the end here –
it was awesome!We started with an hour of classes: Primary, RS/PH, Sunday School, etc. On the first, third and fifth Sundays we had PH/RS, and on the second and fourth Sundays we had Sunday School. My wife and I taught a primary class together, and it was amazing. With only 30 min for sharing time, the kids were active, engaged, and enjoyed the singing. They actually paid attention to the short lesson. Then, in our 30 min primary class, there was just enough time to give them a little message, read a scripture or two, color something and have a treat. The kids were engaged the whole time, with a much higher rate of attention and a lower rate of acting up. Sacrament meeting was one hour long. Then, we were done. Just as in many Protestant congregations, the branch president would head to the door and shake everyone’s hand as they left to go home. 10 am to noon. It was amazing. Can we begin a letter-writing campaign to SL about this? Two hour church would revolutionize your life, friends! Plus, it’d save the Church truck-loads of $$ because you could fit another ward into each building (I think the $$ savings may be the only way to really sell this to SL
😳 ).I went to a branch in Egypt (probably the ONLY branch in Egypt) that did this, it was awesome. A nearby stake for a short time met for 2.5 hours each Sunday. There were all kinds of rumors about it – that it was a pilot program, that the stake president just wanted shorter meetings, that there were too many wards meeting in one building, etc. But people supposedly loved it. In a quick search (and I’ll admit I could be very wrong here) there doesn’t seem to be a direct scriptural commandment to hold Sunday School. There is a reference that little children should receive instruction in DC 55. I bring this up because direct and clear commandments are more likely to stand the test of time than policy or tradition. Hmmm… come to think of it we do a lot of things that aren’t in the scriptures. Oops, another topic.
As an adult I do enjoy a well taught Sunday School lesson from a thoughtful, well prepared teacher. Alas, I think that those kinds are teachers are difficult to find and they often get snapped up for ‘leadership’ callings or Seminary teacher callings. I live in a relatively affluent area with a ward of educated and professionally successful people. Even so, we have only one good Sunday School teacher of adult classes and he team teaches, so we only get his lessons every other week. Now, while I realize that people often get out of a lesson what they put in, most people also appreciate the value of an excellent teacher.
Now to the youth. While I agree that a well-taught Sunday School class can influence the youth for the better, I still have to think about all the time they spend learning about the Gospel. Warning – rant coming… I have a teenager that goes to early morning seminary from 6:00 AM to 6:50 AM every single weekday. She has YW activities every single Wednesday night for 1.5 hours. She reads her scriptures for 10 minutes every night. She works on her personal progress on average probably an hour a week. With Sunday School, she spends about 11 hours a week developing her relationship with her Saviour (or maybe just learning about the church). I don’t think 10 hours a week would hurt her one bit (removing Sunday School).
Just think about all the Calculus she could learn with another 5 hours a week (evil grin). Or all the texting she could do with another 5 hours (sigh). I guess I have to admit both possibilities.
In the other thread, there was a response that for many people Sunday School is the only time that group interaction and effective teaching can take place. I think that’s true. My opinion is that Sunday School is helpful for a minority and that minority shouldn’t be ignored. Adult institute classes or optional Sunday School classes perhaps. There are internet options for the tech savvy. A 2 hour block would have the benefits that Kumahito describes, and it also might actually increase attendance. I agree with Hawkgrrrl that a 3 hour commitment is difficult for many but a 2 hour commitment might be better for some.
Keep Sunday school, ditch priesthood. I served most of my mission on the Navajo reservation. 2 hour church was the norm there and I loved it. A few years back I was in a ward in Calgary that due to building constraints had 2.5 hour church. That was also a decent option. The last 2 meetings were just cut back by 15 minutes. I teach the deacons now and spend at least 15 minutes per class just chatting with the boys anyways that last 45 minutes is to long of a hall otherwise.
DW and I also participate at another church where they have a 1.25-1.5 hour service. They have a morning service and an evening service that is essentually a repeat of the morning. A friend of ours has commented that the service is too long. We just smile and nod thinking of course of the LDS 3 hour block. Everything is relative I suppose. So simply reducing the 3 hour block to 2 hours will not necessarily hit the “sweet spot” for the majority. I suppose in my ideal world there would be a minimum group meeting on Sunday and then other optional meetings throughout the week. Sometimes called “small groups” these smaller meetings could be geared towards playdates for people with young children, board games for those that like boardgames, book clubs, group dating, or the more traditional classes on marriage, parenting, scripture study, financial planning, etc.
I believe that this would serve to allow the membership to determine their ideal level of participation. It would also provide ample opportunity to invite non-members to hang out with us, “You aren’t religious? So what? come and play board games with us on the second Tuesday of the month.”
Serious question for everyone: Quote:If your church meetings ran from 10:00-Noon, instead of 9:00-Noon, what would you do with the extra hour?
My ideal is to make the three meetings on Sunday worth attending, and I’ve seen that happen in multiple places I’ve lived.If that were happening, I think we wouldn’t be having this conversation. I also think the biggest part of the problem with the meetings not being worth attending is a fairly simple fix, even if it isn’t easy in all wards and branches. I also think if there is “fault” for it not happening in any given place, it’s isn’t a problem with the overall concept of three hours or with SLC. This is a fair point. Depending on the teacher I would ditch either SS or PH/RS or both or neither. Occasionally you’re fortunate to be in a unit that gets both right, but often it’s one or the other. I’d love a two hour block. I say just do away with Sunday school. Maybe every fourth Sunday could be a combined Priesthood/RS meeting. Having written my last comment, I wouldn’t fight a two-hour schedule – but I absolutely would not drop Sunday School. For MANY members, it’s the only time they have to study the Gospel with fellow believers. As I said in the other thread that started this discussion, we forget sometimes when we call for the elimination of Sunday School that we are arguing from a position of luxury – and, when that happens, we tend to forget the real damage it would do to the “poorest” in Gospel knowledge among us and those who “stand in need of (that particular type of) comfort”. If we were to go to a two-hour schedule, I would have Sacrament Meeting and Sunday School for one hour each every week and substitute the current 3rd hour once a month – with that meeting focused on service and project planning and reporting. That would give us a (slightly shorter) worship service and a (slightly longer) study meeting regularly, but it also would focus our “social” meeting on real and important service to others. I think that might help to re-focus Sacrament Meeting on what it is supposed to be (a worship service) and not what it too often currently is (another Sunday School, with announcements and the sacrament).
I can watch a 3 hour football game and stay engaged. Three hours of church is much more tedious. Maybe we need a halftime to go get a snack, or maybe some commentary on the speakers. I think Cheerleaders always a help. Of course the ultimate would be to install Lazy Boys but that may cost to much. Yes I think there are plenty of things we could do to make three hours of church more enjoyable. 😆 Hey guys Sunday school is also our best opportunity to help TBM’s recognize that there is more then black and white….. that there are multiple beautiful shades of color. I enjoy Sunday school…. love it actually.
Priesthood seems not used to it’s fullest advantage. but It is necessary.
BR
Quote:Sunday school is also our best opportunity to help TBM’s recognize that there is more then black and white.
I agree, but Sunday school is also seems to have the widest variety in quality of instruction. And since there is one teacher week in and week out if they aren’t good, it really can be difficult, especially if they are unfriendly to comments and discussion.
Cadence wrote:I can watch a 3 hour football game and stay engaged. Three hours of church is much more tedious. Maybe we need a halftime to go get a snack, or maybe some commentary on the speakers. I think Cheerleaders always a help. Of course the ultimate would be to install Lazy Boys but that may cost to much. Yes I think there are plenty of things we could do to make three hours of church more enjoyable.
😆 I agree….but a while back the church actually put uot a policy stating we shouldn’t be bringing snacks in to classes. I was in young men at teh time and I said “If I want to bring brownies I will do so…you can release me if you don’t like it”
Well, being as there is a lot of milling about between the three blocks, they could streamline things a lot. I don’t need to hear 15 minutes of announcements in Sacrament, and then hear them repeated again in priesthood opening exercises. The online ward and stake calendar and email alerts and ward bulletin should take care of that. Cut out all the wasted time and they could easily have a 50 minute sacrament worship service and 30 minutes each for the next two blocks.
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