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January 6, 2013 at 2:33 pm #207275
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Guest“JOSEPH SMITH’S FIRST VISION: A Guide to the Historical Account,” by Steven C. Harper I haven’t read the book, but since it is published by Deseret Book, am confident it is a loyalist’s interpretation. The different versions don’t bother me but I look forward to see how the book explains them. At the very least, the book broaches a subject that heretofore has been ignored by TBM’s in particular and the Church in general. So hopefully out of this will come a more complete rendition of the first vision.
I’m looking forward to see how TBM’ers will respond to this and other issues as they become more available. With the ongoing
Joseph Smith Project, more controversies will be more public. January 6, 2013 at 5:12 pm #263140Anonymous
GuestI haven’t seen the book either, but I did a Richard Bushman Transcript about the Multiple First Vision accounts: http://www.mormonheretic.org/2012/06/10/bushman-on-the-multiple-first-vision-accounts/ Also, Kevin Hinckley put together a fascinating “Synoptic First Vision” that seems to wash away many of the discrepancies. It was really interesting. See
http://kevinhinckley.com/uploads/Combined_First_Vision.doc January 7, 2013 at 8:13 am #263141Anonymous
GuestJD, “And that’s something that our listeners are probably going to be really stunned about because now you can’t really do the first missionary discussion without the Joseph Smith story, but it sounds like many converts of the early church, the fact that Joseph had seen God and Jesus didn’t even enter in to their conversion.” Bushman, “I think it is almost certain that it did not enter into their conversions until later. It’s not absolutely certain they would have known the name of Joseph Smith. He was not presented as the key figure in those first five or six years. The revelation was always in the passive voice; revelation has been received, or God is speaking to his people. But as a personality or a significant figure, there’s no evidence that he even talked about it.
Parley Pratt writes the Voice of Warning in 1837, he never mentions Joseph Smith’s name, he doesn’t even mention revelation until something like page 122. So they were able to preach the gospel without doing much with a story that for us now is the central part of the history.”
JD, “So what was the call if it wasn’t Joseph Smith has seen God and has been told to start a new church? What was the call for people to convert to Mormonism?”
Bushman, “It was fundamentally the restoration of the spiritual gifts, and the building of the city of Zion, and the gathering and preparation for the Second Coming in a place of refuge. They would teach all sorts of other things, just simple gospel principles. They were sent forth to preach repentance to the people, they were not sent forth to teach Joseph Smith. In 1832 Joseph Smith writes an article for a newspaper in which he tries to summarize their beliefs. He doesn’t say anything about himself as a missionary, but talks about gathering to a city of Zion in preparation for the last days.”
JD, “So it’s just basically have faith, preach nothing but faith, repentance, and baptism to these people. The kingdom of God is at hand. You need to follow Christ, and come do it in Kirtland.”
Bushman, “Right, or Missouri.”
JD, “Or Nauvoo.”
Bushman, “The key thing is the restoration of gifts. Revelations are now coming. Spiritual gifts are coming. It’s Mark what 16 something or other, 16:16 I guess. That was an issue that was on people’s minds. Everybody wants to go back to the primitive church, but they knew they didn’t have the gifts of the primitive church. Mormons were saying we do have the gifts, we do have the healings and so on.”
From Mormon Heretic’s Bushman transcript. Interesting.
January 7, 2013 at 3:33 pm #263142Anonymous
Guesti don’t think the first vision was the most important factor in conversion for me. January 8, 2013 at 2:54 am #263143Anonymous
Guestmormonheretic wrote:Also, Kevin Hinckley put together a fascinating “Synoptic First Vision” that seems to wash away many of the discrepancies. It was really interesting. See
http://kevinhinckley.com/uploads/Combined_First_Vision.doc My disclaimer: I’m about as big of an unbeliever as there is, so I tend to be really cynical.
With that being said, I’ve read Hinckley’s paper before. And as you said, Mormonheretic, it is a fascinating theory. Out of all of the arguments that I’ve read, this one would be the most plausible to me. I would recommend giving it a read for anyone who hasn’t already done so and is searching for a way make sense of the multiple FV accounts.
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