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I just got off the phone with a woman from my stake who I don’t know asking my husband and me to help with a community project she’s involved in. She told me that she feels very strongly it should be me and my husband doing this job, that we’d be good examples of marriage for the youth, etc. It was the first time someone’s asked me to do something with the “feel very strongly” bit thrown in that I didn’t feel the need to accept or give any weight to her request because she “feels strongly” about it. I was going to tell her no right then and there, but she asked to me to think about it (and pray about it – OK, she didn’t actually tell me to pray) and talk to my husband (who presides over me of course.) It just made me think how much guilt we Mormons throw around sometimes & also, how we are so very comfortable mixing church and state – at least where I live. The community activity I’m talking about is the Miss _________ Pageant – she wants me & my husband to MC (she knows us from camp & other activities). Sorry Sister, I don’t have a testimony of beauty pageants! I still feel bad saying no though, because she was inspiredto call me. Now Southern – have you fasted about this? You know you might change your mind. 🙂 When someone says they feel strongly about my doing something I pretty much go with the doctrine of “you don’t get to have revelation in my behalf” I usually say it nicer…”ah..honored you thought of me but I am not able to at this time”
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Southern wrote:She told me that she feels very strongly it should be me and my husband doing this job
We participate in the evening Kid’s Town activities of our local Assembly of God church that just happens to have much better primary age programs than our own LDS ward. The new children’s pastor called my wife and asked her and I to help in the Sunday morning Primary equivalent and that she had been praying to know who to ask. My wife had to tell her that we are not available in the morning because we are Mormons and attend our own services at that time.
this tells me that: 1) LDS are not alone to play the “I feel inspired” card and 2) Would your God really direct you to call upon a couple of Faux-Christian Mormons to safegaurd your children?
😈 It was a bit of an akward moment.
I have no doubt it was a real feeling, and I have no problem believing it could have been the appropriate answer to the question she probably asked – but I also have no problem accepting your personal impression that is different than hers. I don’t think that destroys the validity of either impression / feeling / decision. I’ve served in enough callings that include impressions about who to ask to do things to understand that there can be equally valid but competing impressions that can be inspired and appropriate.
Old-Timer wrote:…I’ve served in enough callings that include impressions about who to ask to do things to understand that there can be equally valid but competing impressions that can be inspired and appropriate.
You have a dazzling intellect Ray. I mean that in a good way.
:angel: I’d love to know how two competing impressions can be “inspired.” I understand the appropriate part as two individuals can both be appropriate for a given calling. But if you’re using “inspired” in the traditional TBM sense (which I assume you’re not) then it wouldn’t make sense that God, through the Spirit, would tell two bishopric members different people to fill a calling. Nor that He would tell them to call someone while simultaneously telling the callee to reject the calling. The only way my mind can make sense of it is that Godprobablydoesn’t really care who fills any given calling. But He’s willing to let a leader know if someone they are thinking of would be a good fit, through inspiration. This make an assumption that He rules out the willingness or worthiness of the candidate in inspiring the leader since often enough these two factors rule cause candidate to refuse calling. Anyways, would love to see your logic/thoughts. Thanks!
Just some thoughts… People use different words to convey the same meaning. In the case of many TBMs, the use of “inspired” or “prompted” in a conversation reinforces the idea that a combination of both reason and feeling went into a decision. Yes they call it the spirit and it may be the case in many situations. I believe that often enough it is a case of “reasoning it out in your heart and mind” rather than the spirit. People tend to respect decisions that you feel “inspired” about in the church regardless of the source of said inspiration. However, if you say to a TBM that you don’t want to take the calling because you thought about it and feel it’s not right for you (reason and feeling) your words carry much less weight. So for me, when talking with TBMs I try my best to use their vocab to be as accurate as I can. I feel “inspired” much more now than my TBM days.
There was a time I would have done anything to serve the people…not the church…the people. I even held a TR for such. Wow. Perhaps I was a fool. But still…
I no longer have that option as far as the church membership is concerned. Just something to think about.
Do what is right and let the consequences follow.
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Quote:Do what is right and let the consequences follow.
Amen, friend.
eman, I’ll give you three examples of what I mean by two competing impressions being valid and appropriate from my own experiences:
1) When I was serving in a Stake Mission Presidency (back in the day), I had a very strong impression to talk with a particular person about being the Ward Mission Leader. I didn’t know anyone in the ward, so I said a prayer, looked through the ward directly and couldn’t move my eyes past one particular name. Interestingly, his last name was one I actually did recognize, but I didn’t know him at all.
When I sat down in his home to talk with him about the potential calling, he told me there was no way he could accept it – since he was completely inactive at the time. He then said that he had been thinking about returning to church activity but hadn’t been able to do it, largely because he was sure there wasn’t a place for him anymore. He said that he knew he had the ability to function in the calling and that he interpreted my impression as God telling him that there was a place for him – as soon as he got his act together and felt he could accept a calling like that. He thanked me for talking with him about it and politely declined the calling due to his own “competing impression”.
My question had been, “Whom should I ask to accept this calling?” I believe the answer I got was inspired, even though he didn’t accept the calling.
2) When my wife was in the Primary Presidency, they prayed about who to ask for in a teaching position – asking who would be best for that particular class. I was in the Bishopric at the time, if I remember correctly (or maybe I just gave her some input from my previous times in Bishoprics), and their request wasn’t approved by the Bishop. He ended up asking the person to serve somewhere else in the ward.
Both my wife (and the presidency) and the Bishop were certain their answers to prayer had been inspired – and I believe both competing answers were valid and appropriate. The Primary Presidency received an answer that was correct concerning who would be the best person to suggest, while the Bishop received an answer that was correct concerning which calling would be best use of that person for the ward as a whole. Two correct but competing impressions.
3) My parents submitted mission papers based on an answer to prayer that they should serve at Cove Fort in Utah. Their Bishop prayed about it and agreed. Their papers were sent to SLC with explicit reasons why Cove Fort would be an appropriate call and why a regular mission would not be possible. They were called on a regular mission to South Carolina – an impossibility at the time. They accepted the assignment and left home to drive to South Carolina, knowing it would be impossible to complete the assignment. They completed the assignment, and it was one of the highlights of their lives. (If you want to read the fuller account, it is on my personal blog:
“
Exercising Faith and Seeing the Hand of God” ( http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2008/10/exercising-faith-and-seeing-hand-of-god.html Two competing answers and impressions – both valid and appropriate.
I know it’s a paradox, but I’ve seen it happen too many times to reject it.
We do throw guilt around pretty easily don’t we? It is useful to know how people define the word “inspired” or “felt strongly” my bishop flat out told me that any help that he uses to perform his calling counts as being inspired, whether it comes from God or man. In my case the RSP called him and asked him to talk to me, he then told me he was inspired to talk to me. (There is a whole thread about this somewhere)
Anyway, I came away from this after thinking about it and realized that is just his definition, it is useful to know what his definition is. It isn’t my definition, but I can’t dictate such things to other people.
How is what this person is saying to you any different than the boys that walk up to strangers at BYU and tell them that the Holy Ghost told him that they were supposed to get married? It is the same.
Old-Timer wrote:
1) …My question had been, “Whom should I ask to accept this calling?” I believe the answer I got was inspired, even though he didn’t accept the calling.2) ….The Primary Presidency received an answer that was correct concerning who would be the best person to suggest, while the Bishop received an answer that was correct concerning which calling would be best use of that person for the ward as a whole. Two correct but competing impressions.
3)…Exercising Faith and Seeing the Hand of God…
My attempt to sum up your answer.The first example is that of being prompted in answer to a question but where the inspiration is actually for a different purpose than the original question. In other words the Lord uses the question as a vehicle to fulfill a different purpose. Fine, but I don’t really see the two promptings as conflicting since the inspiration was something other than that which you originally asked. If dealing with words one might ask “Whom should I ask to accept this calling?” but the Lord answered “Ask Bro Smith… He won’t accept but it will spur a discussion that will show him I love him and he can be of use elsewhere.” But since we don’t see the message clearly, we might assume we received conflicting messages.
The second example had different people asking different questions where in the Lord answered them according to what they actually asked. So again, not conflicting. Though I would wonder why He would answer them literally how they asked rather than what they mean (who should be in the calling out of all in the ward).
The third one is the one I have the hardest time with. Would the Lord tell them they should go somewhere but then the leader that they should go somewhere else? Why? As a test of faith? It doesn’t make sense? If some one asks for bread will he give them a rock? Why wouldn’t God give them the correct answer? The only answer that makes sense to me is that either one or the other was wrong. Perhaps because of the leader had access to more info (like where the greater need was) they filled the need first. Perhaps they even asked a different question making this fall in with the second example. Maybe the leader said, “I know they want to go here but we really need someone here. Would it be okay to send them there?” I don’t know. I’m not sure yet where I sit on this one. It’s above me I guess.
Honestly, eman, I agree with the characterization, but I don’t think it matters. In the moment, for the people involved, the answers were conflicting. I think we can analyze anything to the point where we can come up with a negative or positive interpretation – no matter the experience. Thus, we choose what something means, rather than there being some universal meaning.
Life happens; what we see in it depends on us. (not saying we have total control over what we see – just that our seeing determines meaning)
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